Wire 2 receptacles from an existing receptacle.

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  #1  
Old 01-23-15, 05:45 AM
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Wire 2 receptacles from an existing receptacle.

I'm doing a small remodeling project and as part of it, I want to add a new outlet (A) on a wall that currently only has one outlet (B) that's in a hard to reach location. It's a 15 amp circuit using 14-2 wire. The existing outlet (B) that I want to use to power the new outlet (A) already has wires going out of it to feed another outlet (C) on the circuit. Is it OK to connect this new outlet (A) to the existing outlet (B) even though it already feeds another existing outlet (C)?

The new outlet (A) I bought (Legrand CRB5262-WCC12) has back and side wire connections. For the back side connections, there's 2 slots on all 4 screws, so it seems like it could send power out to 2 separate outlets. The existing outlet (B) is likely original to my house and thus 45 years old so I realize I may need to replace it with a new outlet like the Legrand I plan to use in the new outlet (A).

Thanks for the help.
 
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Old 01-23-15, 05:52 AM
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Receptacle

The concern would be meeting box fill requirements when adding another cable to the existing box.
 
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Old 01-23-15, 05:57 AM
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You mean running out of physical space in the existing box (B) to fit another wire? Let's say that won't be an issue for discussion's sake. Would there instead be any electrical issues?
 
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Old 01-23-15, 09:27 AM
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We highly recommend that you do not use the "push-in" or "back-stab" wiring connections as they are a constant source of intermittent problems.

To branch off that box correctly...... you take all black wires and connect them together with a short piece, a tail, to reach the receptacle.

Do the same for the white wires and similarly to the grounds.
 
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Old 01-23-15, 09:44 AM
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The box is listed for a certain number of conductors. It is not simply being able to cram the wires into the box or cutting them too short so that everything fits. A box of the correct capacity needs to be used.
 
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Old 01-23-15, 09:45 AM
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If there's not room in the existing box for all those pigtails, is using the push-in connectors still not recommended?

What kind of problems do the push-in connectors pose? Don't the wires get securely fastened when the screw on the side is tightened?
 
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Old 01-23-15, 09:49 AM
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The existing box is original and nailed to the stud. How could I replace it with a deeper box without destroying the surround plaster?
 
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Old 01-23-15, 09:58 AM
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Do you have two cables already in the box? Are you adding one or teo new cables?Look at the back of the box and tell us how many cubic inches are in the box or how many #14s are allowed.
 
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Old 01-23-15, 10:07 AM
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The existing box is original and nailed to the stud. How could I replace it with a deeper box without destroying the surround plaster?
It's not easy. You would use a plastic old work box. This box would be slightly larger than the existing box.

This method can only be used with non metallic cables.
 
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Old 01-23-15, 10:24 AM
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There are 2 cables in the box already, I want to add a 3rd to a new outlet a few feet away on the same wall. I will pull the outlet out when I get home and see if the box has any kind of labeling on it. It is made of a brown resin/plastic type material just like all the other original boxes in my 1970 built house.

All the wiring is romex type and not metallic sheathed.
 
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Old 01-23-15, 11:31 AM
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Connections

What kind of problems do the push-in connectors pose? Don't the wires get securely fastened when the screw on the side is tightened?
"Back-stabbed" and "Back-wired" are two completely different types of connections.
 
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Old 01-23-15, 11:46 AM
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Just to add with back stab connections nothing but a light spring finger makes the connection. There is no way to tighten the connection and over time it can loosen because wires expand with heat and contract when they cool. The more it loosens the higher the resistance due to the worsening connection and the more it heats under load increasing the movement due to thermal expansion and contraction.

The back wired connection found on some GFCI receptacles and good quality commercial receptacles is a strong connection because of a pressure pate tightened by a screw.
 
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Old 01-23-15, 11:48 AM
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What is the difference? This is the receptacle I bought for the new outlet but was thinking of putting it where the existing outlet is and then move the existing receptacle to the new outlet location. Construction Spec Grade Receptacles, Back & Side Wire, 15A, 125V, White, CRB5262W | by Legrand

The spec sheet calls out the terminal screws with the note "Tri-drive steel terminal screws. Internal screwpressure-plate back and side wire capability. Two back wire holes for more wiring flexibility"
 
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Old 01-23-15, 11:48 AM
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A hacksaw blade is used to cut the nails to remove the box. Little if any drywall is damaged.
 
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Old 01-23-15, 11:50 AM
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Or if your the Tim Allen type, a Sawzall.
 
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Old 01-23-15, 12:01 PM
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The back wired connection found on some GFCI receptacles and good quality commercial receptacles is a strong connection because of a pressure pate tightened by a screw.
The receptacle I bought does have a pressure plate tightened by a screw, so it should be OK then correct?
 
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Old 01-23-15, 12:47 PM
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Yes, pressure plate is fine.
 
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Old 01-23-15, 02:55 PM
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Often to remove old msiled on boxes, I've disconnected wires, took a lg screwdriver and placed it in the box and whacked it with a hammer. Comes free pretty easy.
 
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Old 01-23-15, 03:44 PM
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took a lg screwdriver and placed it in the box and whacked it with a hammer.
That idea does work good but remember to keep the side of the box away from the stud... behind the sheetrock... so it doesn't blast the sheetrock out.
 
  #20  
Old 01-24-15, 09:00 AM
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All done. Was able to use existing junction box and add third wire to it for the new outlet. Just put the new receptacle where the old one was and moved old receptacle to the new box location as it didn't have good connections for a third wire. Now it's the last on the circuit. Everything tested out ok with circuit tester. Thanks for everyone's help.
 
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Old 01-24-15, 09:26 AM
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Just put the new receptacle where the old one was and moved old receptacle to the new box location as it didn't have good connections for a third wire.
Glad you got it but just for future reference best practice is to pigtail all wires not use the device for multiple connections even if it is possible. Did you change out the box?
 
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