Bathroom remodel wiring to new light/fan combo


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Old 01-31-15, 10:27 PM
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Bathroom remodel wiring to new light/fan combo

The old fan that was in the bathroom previously had a junction box that had the line in, and 4 bomex where 2 went to kitchen fan and switch and the other 2 went to bathroom fan and timer. I plan to install a timer using the same wire that was already there for the old timer. I opened the junction box and the line in black wire is pigtailed with the timers white wire and kitchen timer or fans white wire. The line in white wire is pigtailed with white wire from bathroom fan and white wire from kitchen fan or timer. The black wires between the 2 bomex for kitchen Are pigtailed together and the 2 bomex from bathroom are pigtailed together. Could I get some help wiring the new bathroom light and fan combo to a switch for light and a timer for fan. Also, could you explain why the line in black wire is connected to 2 white wires as mentioned above. If the bomex were ran from fan to timer and another from light to switch it would be simple but this JB has me confused. Thanks for your help.
 
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Old 01-31-15, 10:45 PM
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It's pretty hard to follow what you are doing and what you have there.
The type of wire is NM (non metallic) or romex


This is a generic explanation of why you are finding white and black wires connected.
Since your power is at the ceiling..... the light or fan connects directly to the white neutral wire. Now... you need the black hot wire switched so they use a two wire switch loop. Hot power is sent down to the switch on the white wire and returns switched on the black wire. The following diagram illustrates what I'm describing.

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Old 01-31-15, 11:08 PM
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The junction box on the exhaust fan doesn't have enough room for all those conductors.
 
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Old 02-01-15, 10:31 AM
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So in my case that I described the power is traveling down the white to the timer. When the timer is activated or turned on the black wire connecting the fan and timer carries the power from timer to fan thus turning the fan on to the desired time selected.

If this is true the current wiring would work for running to my timer and fan?

Also, it's a fan/light combo so can I run the light off a different line in or does the fan and light have to run on the same line in? I wouldn't think it would need to run on the same line in. What I have now is a 12/2 going from light switch to the light and then the JB I described above with a 12/2 out of it too the timer and another 12/2 out of it to the fan where he connection between fan and timer is in the JB. Would this current setup run my fan by timer and light by switch if wired this way?
 
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Old 02-01-15, 10:39 AM
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Wiring diagram from fan/light instructions.

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Last edited by ray2047; 02-01-15 at 10:57 AM. Reason: Orient, crop and resize images.
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Old 02-01-15, 10:54 AM
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If you only have a 12-2 to the switch then you only have one switching pair which means you can only switch one device, or in your case fan and light combined.

You would need a 12-3 to the switch to operate the fan and light on separate switches.
 
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Old 02-01-15, 10:57 AM
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This is confusing. I'll try to simplify it if you can answer a few questions:
How many wires are at the new fan location? 1 black and 1 white?
Forget junction box for now.
The timer turned on the old fan, how were any other lights turned on and with how many switches?
Did old fan have a light?
Did you have this: (correct what I say is wrong)

- Timer for fan
- Light switch for vanity light
- No fan light
 
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Old 02-01-15, 11:07 AM
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There are 2 sets of 12/2 with 1 blk and 1 wht each at the new fan location. 1 set is from the old ceiling light and the other set is from the old fan. The old fan and ceiling light were not combined. There were 2 old switches, 1 to vanity light and 1 for ceiling light that was not connected with old fan. The old fan had no light in other words. I had a timer for the fan in its own 1 gang box, a switch for vanity and a switch for ceiling light.
 
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Old 02-01-15, 11:27 AM
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It sounds like this (I'm sorry to catch on slow but I want to make sure you're OK)

You are eliminating old ceiling light and old fan and combining the two into one unit.

If both the old cables reach into new fan wiring box, you have everything you need. Timer will run fan, old ceiling light switch will control fan light.
 
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Old 02-01-15, 11:38 AM
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That's fine about catching slow. Safety is most important and that's why I seeked help on this issue. Both cables do reach to new fan box unit. The JB was confusing me. Can the fan timer switch and light switch be ran off 2 different line ins? The timer was fed by line in at JB and the old light switch was fed line in from the basement. I want to put fan timer and light switch in the same 3 gang now where before they were separated in different boxes fed by 2 different line in. This is still fine to do this way?
 
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Old 02-01-15, 11:45 AM
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I need help on that from the professional electricians....

I thought all lines were coming from junction box.

Is the line from basement and JB on different circuits? Or just different runs off the same circuit?
 
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Old 02-01-15, 11:53 AM
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Same circuit. Line in from basement fed the old 3 gang box. Then the blacks Are connected by wire nut to everything in the old 3 gang and another 12/2 to that same wire nut up to the attic to feed the attic light JB. Then From the attic light JB the power goes to the line in to the bathroom fan JB previously mentioned.
 
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Old 02-01-15, 12:01 PM
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Same circuit is fine.
Do a nice clean install at fan wiring box. I'm not sure if the quick connects will accept a #12 wire.
If you need to cut off connectors and join 2 each #12 to stranded, ensure you have a good connection.
 
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Old 02-01-15, 12:06 PM
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Ok so the line in from the fan JB can feed the timer and the line in from the basement can feed the light switch? So you're saying I'll probably have to cut the quick connects off and use wire nuts to make the connections instead?
 
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Old 02-01-15, 12:24 PM
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See instructions if connectors will accept a 12awg. If not, you will use wire nuts.

As far as the wiring, yes. You have 2 switched lines from the same circuit. Everything is good.

Test each cable separately using a meter after all cables and switches are connected, and before installing fan. Black to white should be ~120V.
 
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Old 02-01-15, 01:15 PM
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This pic is the JB showing the line in 12/2 at the top and the 2 12/2 on the right where one goes to fan and one goes to timer. Disregard the 2 bomex on left hand side they are for kitchen fan. The line in black wire connects with the white from the timer bomex and white from line in connects with white from fan bomex. The blacks connect to each other from fan and timer bomex. I'm posting this because I'm trying to wire the timer into my new 3 gang box. I posted a picture of the timer as well. Tell me if I got this right. The black from timer connects to white from timer bomex in pic. The red connects to black from timer bomex and the white connects too what?

Do I need 12/3 wiring for this timer?

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Old 02-01-15, 01:50 PM
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If the timer were in the old single gang box, the white would have nothing to connect to (no neutral).

But the timer is not in the old box. Correct?
The timer is going into the same box as basement source power supplying light?

Since the basement feed and the J-box are on the same circuit, you can connect the white to neutrals coming from basement. Use a pigtail.

If this doesn't have to be done today, you have other options, but we would be starting over.
The info of what you wanted to do kinda trickled in, such as eliminating old timer box and combining with light switch box.
 
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Old 02-01-15, 01:53 PM
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Yeah the timer is moving from the single gang into the 3 gang from basement feed. It would be nice to have done today but other options are welcome for consideration. I did run a new circuit that only has 4 receptacle on the circuit currently and planned on adding 2 receptacle on bathroom interior wall for hall outside bathroom with this circuit. The interior wall is the same wall that the 3 gang box is on. Was the wiring from timer to the JB correct that I mentioned in last comment? I appreciate all your help.
 
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Old 02-01-15, 02:13 PM
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Your timer requires a neutral. If you want to get it done, you can connect timer neutral to neutrals coming from basement, there should be some bundled in back of new switch box. Use pigtail, do not connect timer neutral directly to bundle. You could, but it's harder to get a good connection.

The black from timer connects to white from timer romex in pic
I don't have instructions to know this. This is true IF - Black on timer is line in. Red is Load.
 
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Old 02-01-15, 02:19 PM
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The timer instructions show black is HOT and the red is LOAD. Therefore black from timer connects to white, red from timer connects to black, and neutral white to other neutrals in back of box. Looking at the picture from JB this should be correct for line and load
 
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Old 02-01-15, 02:26 PM
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Correct. You are done.
Like I said, once you get everything wired, test switched cables at ceiling, all should be good.
Fan = 120V Light = 120V when switched on. Zero when off.
 
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Old 02-01-15, 02:38 PM
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Ok working on connecting everything in 3 gang box now
 
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Old 02-01-15, 02:55 PM
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What's the best way to pigtail 6 12 gauge neutral wires in a deep 3 gang box?
 
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Old 02-01-15, 03:25 PM
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Ray, he's connecting timer to a switch leg, so white is source hot down.
 
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Old 02-01-15, 03:32 PM
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6 wires is a lot, Bundle a few with a pigtail going to the other bundle.
Basically, 2 sets of three; connected together with pigtail.

Will you have the option of rewiring this later based on advise received here??
I know it's a pain but I would keep that option open.
 
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Old 02-01-15, 03:39 PM
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If I could wire over again I would have 1 line in and the JB removed in attic. Would free me from unnecessary wiring. I'm wiring it up how we discussed. The drywall will be going into bathroom walls in next couple days.
 
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Old 02-01-15, 03:57 PM
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You're fine. You chose a difficult circuit to work on. It's not your doing.
Whoever decided to tap off bathroom switch box to feed: attic lights, fan, kitchen fan.....
This could have been done better. You're working with what you have.
 
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Old 02-01-15, 05:33 PM
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If this is a switch leg then my previous post is wrong. Do NOT follow the advice. I have deleted that post.
 
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Old 02-02-15, 01:34 PM
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Everything got wired up last night after Super Bowl and breaker turned on. All lights and fan timer work properly. Thanks to everyone who helped me out on this. Now just running a few wires for 2 GFcI receptacles.
 
 

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