Lights that come on without a switch
#1
02-11-15, 12:20 PM
Lights that come on without a switch
I am working on a suspended ceiling and found an old two bulb light fixture on the original ceiling. I assumed it had been disconnected until I touched one of the bulbs and it lit.
There is no switch to turn these lights off anymore as the house was remodeled years ago. Apparently, this fixture was just left.
I'd like to know if this is safe the way it is. The bulbs were just unscrewed a little and left that way.
Thank you.
There is no switch to turn these lights off anymore as the house was remodeled years ago. Apparently, this fixture was just left.
I'd like to know if this is safe the way it is. The bulbs were just unscrewed a little and left that way.
Thank you.
#2
02-11-15, 02:28 PM
Something doesn't sound right. Are you saying that they transferred the switch to new lights, in the hung ceiling & connected the lights in the original ceiling, directly to the breaker box?
#3
02-11-15, 03:00 PM
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No this is not safe. You will need to remove fixture and cap off wires inside ceiling box. Box will also need a cover plate.
Cap off wires using both a wire nut and tape.
Cap off wires using both a wire nut and tape.
#5
02-11-15, 03:23 PM
There are no new lights in the suspended ceiling. That room gets light via a lamp which is controlled by a switch, half of the plug in one outlet works with the switch.
That outlet is directly below this old fixture I'm asking about and I have no idea how it is wired.
Just want to add again that the wall switch does not control the old fixture.
That outlet is directly below this old fixture I'm asking about and I have no idea how it is wired.
Just want to add again that the wall switch does not control the old fixture.
#6
02-11-15, 04:21 PM
Just want to add again that the wall switch does not control the old fixture.
That room gets light via a lamp which is controlled by a switch, half of the plug in one outlet works with the switch.
Once you figure it out you can decide what to do. I'd suggest add a ceiling light using the existing cable. Maybe a drop-in fluorescent fixture.
#7
02-11-15, 04:54 PM
Both the wall switch and the outlet are on walls we had put up 35 years ago. This old fixture (maybe 60 years old) was just covered up by the drop ceiling.
Since I found one I have a feeling there are three more old fixtures in other rooms that have drop ceilings also.
I am going to have somebody look at it who understands it better than I do.
Thanks.
Since I found one I have a feeling there are three more old fixtures in other rooms that have drop ceilings also.
I am going to have somebody look at it who understands it better than I do.
Thanks.
#8
02-11-15, 05:42 PM
Smokyie, I think that you are missing a switch somewhere. No one transferred the original switch from the ceiling lights, to the hung ceiling lights & then rewired the original lights directly to the breaker box.
Try to determine what lights & switches are on what breakers. Get a notebook & take notes as you test.
Try to determine what lights & switches are on what breakers. Get a notebook & take notes as you test.
#12
02-12-15, 04:11 AM
Forum Topic Moderator
Sounds like an old porcelain fixture. If it is not needed, remove the fixture and cap the wires and add a blank cover.
#13
02-12-15, 06:23 AM
All switches are down and I could still screw that bulb back in and it will come on.
There is no other light in that room - as I said you need to plug a lamp into an outlet and use a switch to run that. That switch is down and the bulb still lights.
Make any sense at all?
There is no other light in that room - as I said you need to plug a lamp into an outlet and use a switch to run that. That switch is down and the bulb still lights.
Make any sense at all?
#14
02-12-15, 06:27 AM
Group Moderator
Do you see any wires in that switchbox which are nutted together and do not attach to the switch?
I'm wondering if someone disconnected a previous switch to that receptacle and just wired it on all the time. Can't figure out why they would have done that, though....
I'm wondering if someone disconnected a previous switch to that receptacle and just wired it on all the time. Can't figure out why they would have done that, though....
#15
02-12-15, 06:59 AM
You say the new walls & ceiling were put up 35 years ago--is the current switch in the same location as the old? I'm wondering if the old switch is abandoned behind the new wall. Marginally safe but definitely not code. You're probably going to need an electrician's eyes on this--there are too many possibilities.
#16
02-12-15, 07:03 AM
Forum Topic Moderator
Maybe there was a pullstring fixture there before. Right now the fixture is connected to a constant hot.
#17
02-12-15, 07:05 AM
I only see white, black and copper on that switch.
I checked the other side of the wall and there is a switch with capped off white and capped off black and there is a heavy twisted copper wire. That particular switch doesn't control anything but is located on the other side of the wall from this mystery bulbs set up.
Just to make it more confusing there is another switch in what was the original room which also doesn't control anything now, and that has a white, black and copper with no caps at all.
It may have been the original switch to these bulbs but it's across the room. The old fixture would have been close to a door at that time.
Thank you for responding.
I checked the other side of the wall and there is a switch with capped off white and capped off black and there is a heavy twisted copper wire. That particular switch doesn't control anything but is located on the other side of the wall from this mystery bulbs set up.
Just to make it more confusing there is another switch in what was the original room which also doesn't control anything now, and that has a white, black and copper with no caps at all.
It may have been the original switch to these bulbs but it's across the room. The old fixture would have been close to a door at that time.
Thank you for responding.
#18
02-12-15, 07:10 AM
Guy48065 - Your note came in as I was typing. The current switch is not in the same location as the old. A new wall was put up and there is just that one switch in that room.
PCboss, I doubt there was a pull string unit as this was a front door area back then.
thanks.
PCboss, I doubt there was a pull string unit as this was a front door area back then.
thanks.
#19
02-12-15, 08:25 AM
there is a switch with capped off white and capped off black and there is a heavy twisted copper wire.... there is another switch in what was the original room which also doesn't control anything now, and that has a white, black and copper with no caps at all.
Suggestion: Find which breaker controls the mystery light then try to find everything that is on that circuit. Might give you a hint at where to search.
This is the old fixture
Switch in room with bulbs
This switch is on the other side of the wall
This switch is further away 
#24
02-12-15, 09:59 AM
Ok, thank you for your time. I'm going to have somebody more knowledgeable than me look at it tomorrow, if it still doesn't make sense I will call in a qualified electrician.
I think there might be two more situations like this in the house - old fixtures like this covered up by drop ceilings.
Thanks Again.
I think there might be two more situations like this in the house - old fixtures like this covered up by drop ceilings.
Thanks Again.
#25
02-13-15, 11:13 AM
Ok, I found the breaker that controls those bulbs. Unfortunately, it also controls the lights in four other rooms.
I was hoping I could just leave that breaker off. I found one breaker that apparently doesn't control anything.
When the breaker to those bulbs is off the switch in the same room will not control the lamp which plugs into an outlet under the bulbs. Kind of confusing. The breaker box has a label for that room and that breaker shuts off lights in the room next to it also.
I think the original switch to those bulbs must be hidden behind some new walls, as one of you suggested already.
Anyway, I am waiting for a call back from an electrician.
I was hoping I could just leave that breaker off. I found one breaker that apparently doesn't control anything.
When the breaker to those bulbs is off the switch in the same room will not control the lamp which plugs into an outlet under the bulbs. Kind of confusing. The breaker box has a label for that room and that breaker shuts off lights in the room next to it also.
I think the original switch to those bulbs must be hidden behind some new walls, as one of you suggested already.
Anyway, I am waiting for a call back from an electrician.
#29
02-14-15, 05:17 AM
No, thanks for trying to help but I don't have a tester and have never done anything like this before.
I did just screw the bulb in and flipped those odd switches that don't seem to control anything but they didn't put the bulb out. Thought maybe it was the kind you can control from different switch locations.
Can't figure out why shutting the breaker to that old fixture off also turns off the outlet in that room and yet the current wall switch doesn't control the bulb.
I did just screw the bulb in and flipped those odd switches that don't seem to control anything but they didn't put the bulb out. Thought maybe it was the kind you can control from different switch locations.
Can't figure out why shutting the breaker to that old fixture off also turns off the outlet in that room and yet the current wall switch doesn't control the bulb.
#30
02-14-15, 01:51 PM
It's not a surprise that the breaker controls the outlet as well as the switch. Shut the power to those fixtures. Remove them from the ceiling & try to trace the wires. Open the hole in the old ceiling & look inside. It's not going to matter. No one will see it anyway. If you look long & hard enough, it will eventually make sense. Did I ask you when the house was built. Older houses might have used BX. The newer lighting may have Romex. Look for old vs new. That will tell you a lot.
#31
02-14-15, 02:40 PM
Yeah, I was mixed up on what is shutting down what.
House is about 65 years old now with some remodeling down 35 years back and that's when these bulbs were hidden over the drop ceiling. Can't find the switch so guess that was sheet rocked over.
Since that's been up there all these years with the bulbs unscrewed can I put some burned out bulbs in and just let it be? Can't be turned on by mistake as there is no switch!
Thanks.
House is about 65 years old now with some remodeling down 35 years back and that's when these bulbs were hidden over the drop ceiling. Can't find the switch so guess that was sheet rocked over.
Since that's been up there all these years with the bulbs unscrewed can I put some burned out bulbs in and just let it be? Can't be turned on by mistake as there is no switch!
Thanks.
#32
02-14-15, 03:54 PM
As has been written before, remove the fixture, cap the wires with wire nuts and put a blank cover on the box. Safe and code compliant. You are seeing danger where there is none.
#33
02-14-15, 04:38 PM
You keep saying that there is no switch & I keep saying that there is, even if it's buried in the wall. Your mission, Mr Phelps, if you choose to accept it, is to find it. If you don't know who or what, I'm talking about, go to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAYhNHhxN0A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAYhNHhxN0A
#34
02-14-15, 04:49 PM
Yes, I do remember that theme.
Ok, maybe I'll take a couple of whacks at the walls as I know about where the entrance door was located and the switch should have been close by.
Now, what do you want me to do if I find it?
ray2047 - I know you are telling me the proper way to handle this but the most I know about electricity is what I've learned here the past few days.
Ok, maybe I'll take a couple of whacks at the walls as I know about where the entrance door was located and the switch should have been close by.
Now, what do you want me to do if I find it?
ray2047 - I know you are telling me the proper way to handle this but the most I know about electricity is what I've learned here the past few days.
#35
02-14-15, 05:20 PM
If you are satisfied with disconnecting the old fixtures & capping the wires, then go no further. Otherwise, if you find the switch or switches, trace them to the junction box where the old & new cables meet. If you are correct & the switches are truly gone, such a junction box still exists. That's where you would disconnect the old cables & leave the new.
#36
02-14-15, 07:03 PM
Ok, you have been very patient with me and I appreciate that. I will think it all over again.
There is yet another switch fairly close to the spot I keep talking about. That one controls three lights but it might be another clue!
There is yet another switch fairly close to the spot I keep talking about. That one controls three lights but it might be another clue!
Last edited by Smokyie; 02-14-15 at 07:21 PM.
