New service panel

Swapping out an FPE panel for ?. Haven't decided on brand, etc. Have separate main breaker so don't need city to disconnect. I have 10, 20 amp single pole circuits plus a couple double pole 20 and 50 amp. Not looking to enlarge, just to get rid of the FPE and put in AFCI or GFCI breakers. My box is 11 by 16 and has plenty of room for my needs. Thanks for suggestions or advice. If this has been covered already just point me in the right direction please and save me a lot of searching.

 

Most of the panels available today seem to be pretty good. Many consider the Square D and Cutler-Hammer to both be top of the line. Both also have a cheaper option with aluminum bus instead of copper.

Newer panels are 14" wide so you might need to do some framing.

 

Thanks for the quick reply pc, I didn't expect that.
After finding out the price of AFCI and GFCI breakers I'll probably go the cheaper route and just put in some GFCI receptacles, maybe at the start of each run and stick to standard breakers at one tenth the price. I might prefer copper bus but I doubt it's something I will worry about if I end up with aluminum. Oh, and my box is on plywood in the open in a concrete block garage so anything will fit. Thanks again.

 

Cutler-Hammer's less expensive line, the BR series, comes with aluminum bus and optional copper bus. The upcharge for copper is minimal. I'd definitely put in a copper bus panel. How many amps is your main breaker?

 

100 amp.
Ok, I'm here to take advice so I'll make sure I get copper. When I bought this house the cable was cut near the service panel so I had an electrician replace it. He took out #3 copper and put in #1 aluminum. He didn't ask me and I didn't pay any attention at the time. I guess it doesn't matter but I would have preferred copper, I'm not sure why. I actually asked him to put in a main disconnect at the cut so we could save all that cable but he didn't . Whatever, it's done. It seems when I hire people their main purpose is to make money off me, not save me anything. I guess he saved me the price of copper cable.

 

Aluminum wire is pretty standard for the service entrance due to being 1/3 the price of copper, so I wouldn't worry about that. You just need to use noalox corrosion inhibitor when you reconnect it to the new panel's lugs. Adding a main disconnect would have required additional wiring changes in your main panel that probably would have bumped up the price. Depending on which electrical code your area follows some of the AFCI breakers may be mandatory.

 

Did he save the seperate main breaker? If he saved it, you should now have 4 wires between the main breaker and the FPE panel.

The NEC allows either #4 copper or #2 aluminum for a residential 100 amp service, #1 aluminum is fine. Copper service cable is almost a rarity to find at many supply houses anymore.

If this was after the main breaker it wouldn't have been a good idea.

 

He put in a main breaker, 100 amp, just inside from the meter then ran #1 alu across to the distribution panel. I didn't know cu cable is disappearing. The distribution panel also has a main breaker in it, at least the way it's wired. It's just three wire cable coming in. Box labeled 125 amp. I'll probably keep about the same amperage just get rid of the FPE. I don't want to use more electricity, just use it safely. I wish I could use the same box and just put in better quality breakers but... I was at home depot this morning looking at the price of breakers and how they plug in. GE was a little less expensive. And I picked up a few GFCI receptacles that I'll put at the start of each run.
What I intend to do, replace the distribution panel, seems pretty simple and straight forward and appears easier the more I learn. What interests me more is solar used in an RV to go off grid. That's the next project that I'm starting to learn about. With costs down and efficiency up it looks doable.

 

service panel and main disconnect

 

Every profession has it's own language and I'm not fluent so can you suggest what I'll be asking for if this is the panel I want to replace?
I don't have central air or even a furnace or air handler. I'm in Florida. I also don't use a kitchen stove but will run a circuit for future use. I normally use about 150 kwh a month. Small window AC pushes that up in hot, humid weather. I use a microwave to heat things, I don't care for cooking.
I figured a picture is worth, you know, so three would help you see what I'm working with.
In the next year or two I'd like to park an RV in back and set it up to supply it's own power then tap that for the house. Instead of plugging the rv into house supply, plug the house into the rv. ha If I can.

 

I hope he ran 4 - #1 alumimnum wires to the distribution panel.

Many supply houses no longer stock the copper SEU or copper SER cables because of the cost, but it is still available.

Here is an economical 100A main breaker panel I like with copper bus. I think most box stores sell these. It comes with the value pack of circuit breakers.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_185541-82364-BR3030BC100V_1z0uy06+1z0yct4+2z8vn__?productId=3018694&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1%26page%3D1&facetInfo=Eaton|$50 - $100

 

My link didn't work. I'll try it from a different source.

Here, same panel, but from a different source.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-100...ct_description

 

AL TYPE SE CABLE STYLE R XHHW-2 600V 3 CDRS 1 AWG

Looks like I'll go to Lowes. And with $30 worth of breakers. Great. Thank you sir

 

Looks like EMT feeds out of the disconnect into the panel so 3 insulated wires would work in the proper gauge. SE cable should not be used from the disconnect to the panel. You would need SER if the conduit is not used.

 

He used conduit up to the rafters then hung the cable from the side of the rafter across to conduit leading down to the panel. And that's PVC not EMT.

Two questions please? What does "main lug" compared to "main breaker" mean, and what determines the amperage or is it ampacity of a panel?

Since I have a separate main disconnect wouldn't this new panel be "main lug"? Or do I misunderstand? Would it matter if it went through another main breaker? Well, maybe that's five questions.

 

Since you already have a main disconnect, you can use a main lug panel (panel without a main breaker). But there's no reason not to use a main breaker if you'd rather. Typically, main breaker panels are less expensive, so most would use one even though a 'second' main breaker is not required.

The ampacity of the panel is determined by the size of the busbar, so the panel will be a 100A, 125A, etc based on the way it's constructed. The usable amperage is determined by the main breaker.

You definitely want to get a panel with enough spaces to cover your current and future needs. 50 years ago, a 6-12 slot panel was standard. Nowadays, that's just enough to cover a well-equipped kitchen. So definitely allow yourself some extra slots, even if it means upgrading to the next-size panel.

 

Ok, thanks Zorfdt, that's what I was thinking. A "main breaker" panel just comes with a built in breaker for the whole panel. Lug does not.

So what determines whether or not I use a 100 amp panel or 200 amp panel if I have #1 awg aluminum cable but a 100 amp disconnect? Wouldn't I want to plan for the future by increasing the panel amperage? What would limit my installation and what would be a safe assumption for what I currently have? Or should I be starting at the meter? Increasing size from that point with larger cable and keeping the main breaker and panel capacity at or below cable capacity?

If I understand the concept of safety in wiring it's err on the side of larger wire and smaller breakers, right? The "bottleneck" will determine the safe amperage of the circuit and the "bottleneck" should be a breaker, not a wire. So a higher amp panel is just heavier gauge conductor material?

 

No, you do not have to have a main breaker since you have a main breaker disconnect, a main lug panel would still work fine. The 30 circuit, copper bus 100 amp panel I linked to is one I like very well. I was actually surprised to see Home Depot's price was $10 higher than Lowes, they usually are pretty competitive with prices. If I can find a main lug copper bus panel I like, I'll give you a link.

Since you have a 100 amp disconnect, the panel amperage rating must be equal to or greater than 100 amps. A 200 amp rated main lug panel would be perfectly fine.

If you can get by with 20 circuits, here is a Siemens copper bus main lug panel that is pretty economical, but no breakers are included.

Shop Siemens 20-Circuit 20-Space 125-Amp Main Lug Load Center at Lowes.com lug|Indoor|Siemens

Here is a similar one with copper bus, 24 circuits, 30 circuits if you use some tandem breakers. No circuit breakers included.

Shop Siemens 30-Circuit 20-Space 150-Amp Main Lug Load Center at Lowes.com lug|Indoor|Siemens

 

Thank you for the links Joe. I've been perusing Lowes website. So putting in a higher rated panel would be a good idea?

How about this one at Lowes? GE 20-Circuit 40-Space 200-Amp Main Lug Load Center (Value Pack)
Item #: 102646 | Model #: TLM2020CCUPL9 $89.44

Oh, no ground bar.

 

Panels do not come with a ground bar. They have to be bought separate. GE is aluminum bus bars only but on the plus size their breakers are usually the lowest in cost.

 

CasualJoe, your first suggestion, the 30/30 Eaton main breaker w/value pack seems about the best deal they have for what I need. I realized to overload a 100 amp box I'd have to be using all of those 100 amps at one time. I can't imagine doing that. I don't like high electric bills so I'm always trying to use less, not more. I'll wait a few days to see if a better suggestion appears, then order that Eaton. Thanks again.

 

Ray, that panel the OP linked to happens to be a copper bus panel according to the description and it looks like a lot of breakers are included in the value pack. The description and specifications seem to differ though. The specs say aluminum and copper bus. Whatever that means. The description says 20 space-40 circuit, but the specifications say 20 space-20 circuit. Judging from the panel catalog number, I believe it is just a 20 circuit panel. Personal preference is everything, I know you like GE and I won't buy a GE light bulb if I can help it. It may be a toss up as which panel is the best fit for the OP.

 

Here is another suggestion I forgot about. Buy the panel from Lowes stock and if you are a veteran take your DD214 discharge papers and get the 10% veterans discount. I wasn't even aware of this till a couple weeks ago I had a guy tell me about it.

 

I'm not a vet. Got a high lottery number in 1970 but it's a good idea that I didn't know about. Thanks.

 

Lucky you, mine was 44. Most of the youngsters won't have a clue what we are talking about.

 

Only because it is cheap but I have had very little experience with them. I have never seen a GE with copper busses but really haven't seen that many GEs.

 

hahahaha Yes, I agree they are cheap and they used to all have aluminum bus, but I think most today are copper. The specs on the linked panel said aluminum and copper bus so that kind of throws me. Maybe they learned their lesson on aluminum bus. I could show you a really crispy GE panel from the early '80s that had aluminum bus. The last I heard that panel was at Bethesda, MA at the US CPSC test labs.

 

So I'll go with the copper, and who ain't a youngster here?