240v Pool pump with timer and toggle switch

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  #1  
Old 03-03-15, 09:34 PM
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240v Pool pump with timer and toggle switch

Hi,

I'm trying to figure out why this isn't working.

I have a 1HP 240V Pentair pool pump and Intermatic P7103ME Timer. The power comes from a 2 pole 20A breaker. This all keeps my large inground spa happy and blue.

The timer has worked great. The problem I have is when people use the "Manual" button on the front of the timer itself they forget to put it back to "Auto" and leave the setting at "off" and then I come home to a green algae filed spa. So I want to wire in an idiot proof toggle switch that bypasses the timer and turns the pump on. I figured I'd just wire a 2 pole 240V toggle switch in parallel with the timer and everything would be great!

The timer turns on fine, and the toggle switch turns on fine. But if they both turn on at the same time the relay in the timer arcs and the breaker throws.

It's wired as such:
The two hots comes from the panel. They wirenut into a splice that goes into the Supply side of both the timer and the toggle switch, then the Load side of both the toggle and timer and wirenutted to the wires going to the pump.

Since it's arcing I'm doing something wrong, correct? Could I just have a chaffed wire somewhere (the electrician doing the work already blew the relay just rewiring the timer in during my electrical panel upgrade because there was a chaffed wire). Am I asking something that's weird? Wouldn't someone want to have a timer with an external manual override that doesn't affect the timer (it'd like to just put a padlock on the timer box)? So that if the timer kicks on while the manual override (toggle switch) is on that it doesn't blow up.

Any help would be awesome sauce! Thanks
 
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  #2  
Old 03-03-15, 09:53 PM
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Welcome to the forums.

How many total terminals are on that switch ?
 
  #3  
Old 03-03-15, 10:10 PM
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I'm going to figure you have a two pole toggle switch with 6 terminals.

Name:  timer.JPG
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1= black (L1 in)
4= red (L2 in)

2= blue (load 1 out)
5= yellow (load 2 out)
 
  #4  
Old 03-03-15, 10:48 PM
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My two pole toggle has 4 terminals, but assuming based on your picture that i'm not using 3 and 6 anyways, it'll hold for 4 terminals.

That being said. that's exactly how it's wired.

Terminal 1, Black, and L1 in from panel are wirenutted together
Terminal 4, Red, and L2 in from panel are wirenutted together

Terminal 2, Blue and Load out 1 to pump are wirenutted together
Terminal 5, Yellow and Load out 2 to pump are wirenutted together.

As I write this I'm beginning to question whether if the Load outputs might be crossed?

I'm wondering if this might be a Phase thing. 240v is 120x2 but 180 degrees out of phase? Could having both the toggle and the timer "on" be doubling the voltage to 240v on each side? Do I need to cross the load outputs so the phase cancels out?
 
  #5  
Old 03-03-15, 11:22 PM
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The wires must be wired correctly. You cannot cross the load wires as that will create a dead short.

You have to switch L1---> Load 1 and L2---> Load 2 without exception.
 
  #6  
Old 03-03-15, 11:37 PM
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I'm almost positive I have it wired correctly as you've stated. (I'll double check in the morning).

So..

As wired, the timer or toggle will turn on the pump without problem. What happens is that when they're both on (the toggle switch gets turned on while the timer is 'on') the relay in the timer arcs and the circuit breaker trips.

So I have no idea why this is happening. Both poles are throwing since the toggle switch works by itself, it's just when they're both on that everything breaks.

Ideas?

Thanks so much for helping me flesh this out.
 
  #7  
Old 03-04-15, 12:14 AM
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Nevermind...just went out in the cold and looked. The electrician has crossed the load wires from the toggle switch so when they were both on it was freaking out. Swapped the load wires and everything works as it should. Toggle switch overrides the timer and if they're both on, nothing bad happens.

Thanks for helping! Your wiring diagram made it!
 
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Old 03-04-15, 01:03 AM
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You are very welcome.
 
  #9  
Old 03-04-15, 04:03 AM
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Not sure where you have your switch located, but I would have located it after the timer. Having the switch after it will allow for people to turn off the pool equipment without hindering the timing action. It will, however only allow the pool equipment to run during the timing modes. I have a similar setup on my diesel heater and it works well.
 
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