Am stuck in the islands trying to install sub-panel


  #1  
Old 03-17-15, 04:10 PM
L
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 13
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Am stuck in the islands trying to install sub-panel

Am on an island and thought I understood how to connect a new sub panel, but am now getting 2 differing suggestions.
Adding a DEH-1309 sub panel on other side of wood stud from existing main panel.
Am running the 4 wires thru 3" metal conduit with metal lock nuts on side if each panel box side.
Just noticed that the new sub panel has the 2 main lugs for main wires, but only one bar which I thought was for the white neutral connection back to main panel.

Am getting 2 different opinions on the green ground wire from main.

Do I connect the green ground direct to the neutral bar holding the white neutral, or do I have to order a TLG2 ground kit to add to the sub panel for the green ground?

Does the metal cabinet to metal cabinet connection between the 2 panels mentioned above make any difference here?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, and thanks
 
  #2  
Old 03-17-15, 04:36 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Jersey
Posts: 70,055
Received 2,953 Votes on 2,664 Posts
The existing bar that comes in the new panel is insulated from the panel and is for the neutrals.
You need to add a grounding bar that connects directly to the metal box of the panel.

You could use bonding locknuts and then technically you wouldn't need the ground wire and bar but if you plan to connect circuits.... you'll need the ground bar anyway.

Name:  lng-300.jpg
Views: 474
Size:  16.7 KB
 
  #3  
Old 03-17-15, 04:45 PM
L
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 13
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks much, and failed to remember the connecting new circuits.

Before I power it all up, can I post a picture to make sure I have it wired correctly...not a lot of fire departments here.....

Thanks again.
 
  #4  
Old 03-17-15, 04:58 PM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,964
Received 9 Votes on 8 Posts
Sure, we would appreciate the pictures. Usually complete series of pictures showing all the connections in both boxes will help, too.
 
  #5  
Old 03-17-15, 05:32 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,575
Received 15 Votes on 13 Posts
  #6  
Old 03-17-15, 06:33 PM
L
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 13
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks Ray... Will post some pix....

Because...... we don't have any fire trucks here.....
 
  #7  
Old 03-17-15, 07:02 PM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 11,149
Received 164 Votes on 147 Posts
Technically you can only use the grounding locknuts if the knockouts are eccentric. If you have concentric knockouts with rings remaining, you'll have to use bonding bushings. In each panel you need to connect the bonding bushing to the appropriate bar; ground bar in subpanel and neutral bus in main panel. IF you do this, you do not need to run the 4th grounding conductor, but you will still need the ground bar kit in the subpanel. You can still run a 4th ground wire if you so desire.
 
  #8  
Old 03-20-15, 02:44 PM
L
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 13
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Status up with some questions....

These pictures show my “planned connections”, as once these pix were taken, I disconnected all connections between the panels and turned power back on.

(Also, have come to realize I need a couple specific connectors that are having to come in from the State next week.)

Name:  Overall_0869.jpg
Views: 415
Size:  16.7 KB

Name:  SubPanel_0868.jpg
Views: 625
Size:  41.6 KB

Name:  MainPanel_0874.jpg
Views: 989
Size:  39.3 KB

Name:  MainNeutralBar_0863.jpg
Views: 2478
Size:  44.8 KB

Have two #4 wires (black with blue tape) going from sub to main.
Have one #4 wire (black with white tape noting neutral status) going from sub (connected) to main, but not connected because I have to order another neutral bar lug connector for this connection.
Have one #6 wire (green) going from sub (connected) to main, but also not connected at main because I also need a ground bar lug connector.
Have also connected 2 breakers in sub panel, but the #12 wire is not connected as I need a breaker here.
NOTE – Had to use pvc connector for the time being until I get a ¾’ lock ring for the 10-3 wire coming into sub on lower left.
All ground wires in sub panel are not connected, because I also had to order a ground bar kit for this sub panel which goes in the right side of sub panel box.
Questions….

Am I on the right track with wires and connections?
Am a little concerned about the limited space in which to install the neutral bar lug on the neutral when I receive it…any suggestions? May have the same situation with the ground bar connector that I have to install on the ground bar on main panel.
The main panel is a Siemens G11224ML1125, an older panel, but was told Siemens bars use the same lugs, so ordered a ECCS1 for the ground bar, and a ECLK2 for the neutral bar.
Finally, and this just came up. Please note the second smaller 30 amp breaker in sub panel which I was sold, but it has 2 connections, and am not sure if I got the wrong breaker here, as the large double 30 amp breaker has 2 connections which I was told was for my 10-3 wire and I connected the red/black, but only have a 10-2 going to the smaller breaker (only have the black wire)…..where did I go wrong?

Many thanks for looking at these and any help is greatly appreciated…..as they say here… island construction ain’t for sissies….
 
  #9  
Old 03-20-15, 05:27 PM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 15,389
Received 148 Votes on 131 Posts
The smaller breaker in the sub panel looks like a tandem and not a 2 pole breaker. A 2 pole breaker is needed for a 240 volt load.
 
  #10  
Old 03-20-15, 07:36 PM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 11,149
Received 164 Votes on 147 Posts
I see some double lugging going on in your main panel. Where is the main breaker?

That second smaller 30 amp breaker in the subpanel will give you two 30A 120V circuits.
 
  #11  
Old 03-21-15, 04:01 AM
L
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 13
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Casual Joe, am not sure what is meant by "double lugging"?

Cottage was built with a main breaker outside at the meter. which then directly feeds into this main panel located in the cottage where there is a 100 amp breaker.

These are the only "main breakers" I have.
 
  #12  
Old 03-21-15, 04:18 AM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,964
Received 9 Votes on 8 Posts
Double lugging is where there are two wires attached to the screw on a breaker. Some breakers are fine with double lugging and have places for a wire on each side of the pressure plate. It is usually best to pigtail both wires into a single wire and attach that wire to the breaker. The main breaker at the meter is fine. He just wanted to make sure you had one since the boxes you have are main lug type and not main breaker type.
 
  #13  
Old 03-21-15, 05:23 AM
L
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 13
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks for all the help from everyone.
Any thoughts/experience in adding a second lug connector to the neutral and ground bars in the main panel....
Although I won't get these connectors for another week, am not sure where to put them on the bars as space looks very tight?
Also, I connected the 2 panels with a 3" pipe thru the stud, and then secured them with metal locking rings. Does this type connection mean I won't need to run that green ground wire between the main panel to a new ground bar (yet to be installed) on the sub panel?
Thx again.
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: