Need to run 50 amp to garage

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  #1  
Old 03-21-15, 07:04 AM
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Need to run 50 amp to garage

Im getting a welder that needs a NEMA 6-50 outlet at 50 amps. My electrical box is 100 amps it's in my basement about 80 feet from where I need the power. I know electricity is no joke but I would like to get all the materials and do most of the labor and have an electrician double check and make the connections. I'm wondering what wire, etc I will need and maybe I should upgrad e to 200 amps?
 
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Old 03-21-15, 07:14 AM
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Have you found an electrician who will agree to these terms? You may find that most will not, since you're making them liable without them knowing exactly how the work was done.
 
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Old 03-21-15, 07:31 AM
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Is that the only electrical service your garage has? Installing a subpanel may be in your best interests so you can have lights and normal receptacle set up.
 
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Old 03-21-15, 07:53 AM
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I know quite a few electrician's but don't want to bother them until I'm better set up.

I have 110 in the garage already. I was thinking about redoing that as well.
 
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Old 03-21-15, 08:04 AM
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I have 110 in the garage already
No, 120.
I was thinking about redoing that as well.
You will have to if this is a detached garage. You can not have two sources of power to a detached structure. The 120 will be abandoned and replaced with a subpanel if this is a detached garage. Assuming a detached garage how is the 120 going to the garage, conduit or buried cable?
 
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Old 03-21-15, 08:14 AM
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The existing wiring is routed via conduit. If sub panel is the way to go that's what I'll do. I'll do this the right way
 
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Old 03-21-15, 08:17 AM
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Is it a detached garage? What size is the conduit?
 
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Old 03-21-15, 08:23 AM
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The garage is detached. I believe the conduit is 1/2 inch. I think I will use buried cable instead this time around if that is a good way to do it
 
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Old 03-21-15, 08:29 AM
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I think I will use buried cable instead this time around if that is a good way to do it
For the size wire I would suggest (new) conduit and individual wires. Give us the specs for the welder so we can better help you. Full load amps for the welder, duty cycle, and manufacturer recommended breaker size. What loads in the garage other then the welder? May you want an air compressor in the future, electric heat, A/C?
 
  #10  
Old 03-21-15, 08:43 AM
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PowerMTS 200 - Multi-Process Welders | Everlast Generators.

Hit the tech specs tab

Sorry I have to post a link I'm using my phone for this. The manufacturer is the one who recommended the 50 amp.

I will probably only need power for regular power tools and such. I have a garage door opener as well.
 
  #11  
Old 03-21-15, 01:44 PM
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I'm hoping to get by with the 100 amp service for a while. I'm guessing it's 100 amps because of the main breaker is 100? I don't see it listed anywhere else
 
  #12  
Old 03-21-15, 02:32 PM
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You need to do a load calc for your house.
Here is one: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/97696973...lt-Enterprises You can Google load calculation to find others.
 
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Old 03-21-15, 02:56 PM
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Thanks Ray. I'm trying to find a good Android app for load calc right now.
I'm thinking I'll be good because I heat with wood and use no AC. The only thing I wonder about is the well pump.

I emailed the PoCo to see if my line will handle 200 amp if I have to upgrade.
 
  #14  
Old 03-21-15, 04:11 PM
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I wish I had that welder.

I don't think you have a problem BECAUSE of these specifications:

Max Inrush ( I1MAX ) Amps:

120V: 32A
240V: 34A

Maximum Rated (I1EFF ) Input Amps:

220V: 22A
230V: 21A
240V: 20A
This tells me that the MAXIMUM current drawn by the machine is 34 amperes at 240 volts. This is ONLY when first striking the arc and the continuous current draw is 20 amperes at 240 volts while welding.

I would run a 60 ampere feeder to the shop. Use 1 inch PVC conduit with three #6 copper conductors along with a #10 copper equipment grounding conductor, all with type THHN/THWN insulation. You need a grounding electrode at the shop as well. Many more details that I or someone else can add. I see no reason to upgrade the service at the house UNLESS you have a large family that likes to use electricity.
 
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Old 03-22-15, 05:13 AM
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Thanks Furd

Would that wire be a 6/3? I've heard many discussions about which wire to use
 

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  #16  
Old 03-22-15, 08:22 AM
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Would that wire be a 6/3
If you use conduit as suggested best practice is to use individual wires not cable.
 
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Old 03-22-15, 09:15 AM
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As Ray stated, if you run conduit all the way then use individual conductors, three #6 copper with one having white insulation (the other two can be any color other than white, grey or green) along with a #10 green insulated equipment ground.

OR, if you want to use a cable that is hard to work with but can be directly buried (24 inches minimum) use 6-3 w/g type UF cable. You would still need to use PVC conduit where the cable enters and leaves the earth. For me, I would far prefer the full run of conduit and individual conductors.

You will need an eight-foot long grounding electrode (ground rod) at the shop and this would be connected with no less than #6 copper to the separate equipment grounding bus in the circuit breaker panel. This separate bus bar is also where you connect the #10 green from the house (service) panel.

I suggest that you first buy the book Wiring Simplified and read it cover to cover. The book is usually available in the electrical aisle of the big box mega-mart homecenter (NOT the books and magazines section) and has a price of ten dollars or less. This is the bible of electrical work for the person just starting electrical projects and you will refer to it many times.

This 60 ampere feeder will give you lots of room for additional uses in the future. I would recommend a circuit breaker panel with a minimum of eight CB spaces and sixteen total circuits or larger. A "main breaker" panel will be required. Check out the packages of panel and breakers because sometimes you can get a bargain in a package deal.

Still a lot more details to cover.
 
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Old 03-22-15, 10:54 AM
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is the proper name for this wire THHN wire? I found a website where I can get all the colors by the foot $0.46 Not sure if that's a good price yet
 
  #19  
Old 03-22-15, 12:00 PM
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is the proper name for this wire THHN wire
No, but that is what BigBox stores often call it. You need THWN. The W indicates it is usable in wet areas. Buried conduit is always considered a wet area. THHN is dry areas only. However almost all THHN wire is dual rated THHN/THWN. You just have to check the writing on the wire.
 
  #20  
Old 03-22-15, 02:18 PM
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I was thinking about getting the wire to run from the exsisting panel to the subpanel, so maybe I will be able to get it run this weekend. Then maybe I'll get a sparky to do the rest. I'm going to get 100 ft of each just to be safe

I was thinking
100 ft white
100 ft black
100 ft red

What I'm confused on is do I also get 100 ft of #6 bare copper or #10 green like mentioned above?
 
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Old 03-22-15, 02:32 PM
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What I'm confused on is do I also get 100 ft of #6 bare copper or #10 green like mentioned above?
100 feet of green insulated #10. Make absolutely certain that 100 feet is going to be enough including all conduit bends and enough to make the connections in the panels as it is REALLY aggravating when you come up a few inches (or feet) short. Better to throw away five feet than to be six inches too short. You will also need enough #6 copper, either bare or with green insulation, to go from the sub-panel in the shop to the grounding electrode. Of course you will need that grounding electrode and the proper (Acorn) clamp for the wire. The reason for using #6 to the grounding electrode is that Code requires anything smaller than #6 to be protected from mechanical damage with conduit and THAT raises several other requirements, all of which are negated by using the #6.

Be sure to use electrical PVC conduit and not PVC water pipe. It is not necessary to use primer when gluing the joints, just the glue itself. The conduit is supposed to be complete from end to end before pulling the wiring.
 
  #22  
Old 03-22-15, 03:11 PM
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Would #8 green work in place of#10 ?

#8 I can get by the ft but the#10 I would have to buy a 500 ft roll if I use the seller was planning on using
 
  #23  
Old 03-22-15, 03:19 PM
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Yes, larger is always acceptable. With an #8 equipment ground you could even go as high as a 70 ampere main breaker.
 
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