Can Anyone Say if this Circuit Diagram Will Work?

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  #1  
Old 05-25-15, 01:42 AM
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Can Anyone Say if this Circuit Diagram Will Work?

I'm new to wiring and designed this circuit to add some switches to some pull chain lights and also connect some added outlets that I'd roughed in. Could someone take a look and let me know if you think this is going to work? Particularly concerned about the 3-gang box where there's some fancy (to me) 14-3 wiring going on, or if I wire an outlet off a switch.

I'm going to fiddle with it tomorrow anyway, but would be nice to know if there's an obvious mistake ahead of time.

Please let me know if more info is needed than what's on the diagram.

Thanks in advance!


Pretty large image, but this site squishes it down from 1MB+ to 24K... is there another way to attach pics on this site? Like link to photobucket or something to show larger format images? If anyone needs larger view, please tell me how to accomplish that.
 

Last edited by Shadeladie; 05-25-15 at 04:58 PM. Reason: Pics removed per OP request
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  #2  
Old 05-25-15, 04:41 AM
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Yes, a link to photobucket can be used. A larger view isn't needed. You have the cable marked 14/3 when only 14/2 is shown at the breaker. The white wire goes to the neutral bar not the breaker itself. The white wires bypass the switches. What will be connected to the outlets & why do you want them switched?
 
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Old 05-25-15, 04:45 AM
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If the circuit is required to be afci protected, the white will attach to the breaker. A neutral pigtail from the breaker will go to the neutral bar.
 
  #4  
Old 05-25-15, 05:43 AM
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Circuit

In the top photo, it looks to me like the light fixture on the extreme left will be controlled by the breaker rather than a switch.
 
  #5  
Old 05-25-15, 07:03 AM
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Hi Pulpo,

>> Here's a link in case anyone wants more detail: Photobucket Wiring Diagram

>> Your question about the breaker: This part was already wired by an electrician years ago. It is 14-2, from the breaker box to this 1st pull chain fixture's ceiling junction box. But from there I plan on making changes as shown in the diagram (I just don't know if they're going to work).

>> To clarify: I don't want ANY of the outlets switched, so if I'm wiring them incorrectly, please tell me what to do. I'm trying to run as little wire as possible, but if I need to change a run from 14-2 to 14-3 or anything, please inform me.

Hi pcboss:

>> That breaker was already wired, I just wanted to make a representation of "Power In" for where the power is coming from in the circuit - I realize now it looks confusing as to how a breaker box is wired. But I won't be changing that part of the wiring circuit.

Hi Wirepuller38:

>> I definitely want the light in the extreme left to be switched by the switch, not just the breaker - please let me know if that's not what will happen, and then how to wire it properly.

Thanks again for any help!
 
  #6  
Old 05-25-15, 07:19 AM
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Far left light should connect to the red/black of the 2nd light from the left.

Middle switch of the 3 gang box (switch/switch/receptacle) should not connect to 14/2 going to the receptacle. Instead use a 14/3 to the switches, white (taped black) will be your hot and the black will be one switch leg, red the other switch leg. The 14/2 black to the receptacle should not connect to the light, just connect it to the hot.


I was going to change your diagram but it looked very bad.
 
  #7  
Old 05-25-15, 09:12 AM
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Revised Diagram - But is it corrected?

Tolyn, any diagram is helpful, I don't care how it looks! Thanks for the help.

Here's what I think you're telling me (see revised diagram below or this photobucket link).

I'm still not sure if this is going to work though? Did I get the receptacles wired right?

Thanks for the help!
 

Last edited by Shadeladie; 05-25-15 at 04:58 PM. Reason: Pic removed per OP request
  #8  
Old 05-25-15, 10:27 AM
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Your getting there.

Remove the white that is feeding the switches, from the receptacle. The 14/3 will only feed the switches, those connections are correct except the pigtails should be black or red wire.

Run a new 14/2 like you had before just to the receptacle.
 
  #9  
Old 05-25-15, 10:54 AM
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HotAir,

You are definitely new to wiring if you made a diagram with White wires (Neutrals on the Switches); this is not optional you HAVE TO remove those Neutrals White wires from all the Switches. All Single Pole Switches only uses Two Hot Black wires one from the Power Source and the other that goes to the Light Fixture, etc. they also uses a pigtailed Ground at the Green screw; but they NEVER uses Neutral White wires. Other Switches like Three Way Switches will use also a RED Wire that will function as the traveler from one three way switch to the other three way switch. So Black and Red wires at Three way Switches will be correct. Or Black and Red at a single pole if there is no more Black wire and instead a red wire was used as Black. But NEVER a Neutral White wire will be connected to any single pole switches.

The Neutral wires goes from the Panel to a Receptacle, or directly to a Light Fixture. In a Switch the Neutral is pigtailed with the other Neutral on the box, but never connected to any screw on the Switch.

Also, that switch that have a White Neutral wire going to the Receptacle is wrong. You can pigtail the Black wires to connect one at the Switch and the other at the Receptacle but again NEVER a Neutral White wire connected to the switch.

Sorry guys, but true is this diagram is horribly wrong. Maybe the connection will work, but if a diagram contains confusing wiring information then is not helpful at all. With electricity is extremely important that any diagram is 100% correct. Not even 99% should be acceptable on a wiring diagram, remember that someone may still want to try an installation using a diagram that is slightly incorrect and that may still result in an electric shock or electric fire hazard!


Thanks.


Jos
 
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Old 05-25-15, 11:02 AM
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NOTE: IF you use a White wire to function as a Common Wire, then this is not optional you MUST identify in the diagram that the wire is functioning as a Common Wire and that will include a legend on the diagram stating that the White is a common wire.

Again, good diagrams don't have confusing wiring, and nor assume that the person knows what he/she is wiring; but always identify and provide specific information about how the wires were used.

If you diagram fails to have a legend identifying the White wire to be used as a common wire, then it's indeed horribly wrong!
 
  #11  
Old 05-25-15, 11:23 AM
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Hi Tolyn,

I think I might finally have it (photobucket link here). I also added a closet receptacle, can never have too many...

If I still need to change it, please let me know.

Thanks for all the help!
 

Last edited by HotAir; 05-25-15 at 12:23 PM.
  #12  
Old 05-25-15, 11:27 AM
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Hi Josi,

I'm just making this diagram for myself, although I see your point about it now being on theinternet and if someone came across it and decide to use it, it could end up being a problem.

I can delete the previous posts and the prev. photobucket iterations, but not sure what else I can do but try to get it correct.

Thanks!
 
  #13  
Old 05-25-15, 11:29 AM
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HotAir,

The last two Single Pole Switches at the end need the White Wires to be removed! Don't you noticed that those White wires are going to the Pigtailed Black wires that comes from the power line and that goes to the receptacles??? It's clear that those wires are Black not White. Why you are unable to see that in your own diagram? Are you not having interest nor concentrating enough in the work you are doing on your own wiring diagram? That's not a good sign.
 
  #14  
Old 05-25-15, 11:41 AM
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Josi, this is new to me, I'm DIYing an update to circuit in my home. That's why I'm asking for review by experienced professionals or DIYers on this forum.

If you can explain to me the issues I'm screwing up and what to do to fix them, I'm more than happy to change the plan immediately.

Thanks!

UPDATE: If I just take any white wire that's nutted to black wires and mark black tape on each end, is that good to go, or are there more fundamental issues?
 
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Old 05-25-15, 11:50 AM
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UPDATE: If I just take any white wire that's nutted to black wires and mark black tape on each end, is that good to go, or are there more fundamental issues?
The two single pole switches at the end are receiving their power from the pigtailed Black wires that comes from the Hot line and power the last two Receptacles, because those pigtailed Black wires are all HOT and properly using Black wires, I still suggest that you change their color from White to Black in the diagram. Using black tape at both ends will work to identify the White wires like Hot instead of Neutral, but as those White wires at the end switches are not functioning as Common wires, etc. please change their color to Black and your diagram will be perfect!
 
  #16  
Old 05-25-15, 11:52 AM
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The wiring he has is fine under the pre 2011 NEC. 2011 NEC and later only requires the use of a 14/3 cable to satisfy the requirement of a neutral wire to be in every box. Even then, if he is finishing the ceiling with an accessible ceiling the diagram is OK as is, with the exceptions I mention below. All will depend on what code cycle is enforced in his area. I can give code references if you want.

@ Hot Air - That diagram is good. The only change I see making is the switch loops for the furnace and closet lights. The white wire should be marked with black tape to identify that it is hot conductor. Of course all ground are not shown and should be connected to each other and each device.
 
  #17  
Old 05-25-15, 12:01 PM
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Tolyn Ironhand,

The white wire should be marked with black tape to identify that it is hot conductor.
That's the same I am suggesting to him, those white wires at the end switches are actually hot conductors, therefore they need to be BLACK not White.

About this:

That diagram is good.
That's not a responsible statement from your side. If the diagram still needs changes to be done, then it's not a good diagram yet. Once all the required changes are done, then the diagram will be good.


A personal recommendation, maybe you will accept it, maybe not, but you must be more responsible and strict with wiring diagrams... wiring diagrams are not something that could be partially right or partially wrong; they need to be absolutely right, otherwise they are not good wiring diagrams. - JosiQDIY2015. Jos Lewis Von Sant.


With all respect.


Jos
 
  #18  
Old 05-25-15, 12:14 PM
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I'm not as high strung as some others, my post stands. The diagram is a work in progress and is fine with some minor changes, the addition of some black tape is not going to greatly increase the function, or safety of the wiring.
I could spend days nit picking the diagram with pictures and text, but I have other things to do.
 
  #19  
Old 05-25-15, 12:16 PM
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The diagram is fine with some minor changes,
That's curious...


Jos
 
  #20  
Old 05-25-15, 12:16 PM
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Thanks again for your help and everyone else on this thread, this has been one of those forums that actually offers real help and expertise! I should try to contribute back, but obviously not in the electrical section! (is there a technical documentation or graphic design section? )

Here's my updated vsn. (photobucket link), I'm going to go try it out now - time to start drilling and pulling wire. Have a great Memorial Day!

I'm going to delete the old revisions from photobucket the prev. posts, just in case someone saw them and somehow thought they were applicable to their situation and were as clueless as I am and then created a fire hazard.

Name:  WIRING DIAGRAM 96d.jpg
Views: 156
Size:  26.9 KB
 
  #21  
Old 05-25-15, 12:21 PM
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Hi HotAir,

Now with those White wires at the two single pole switches at the end at least tapped with Black electrical tape identifying that those are Hot conductors... your diagram is now a GOOD diagram!!!


Well done!

And have a nice, safe wiring day.



Thanks a lot.

Jos
 
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