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Running new romex to the panel - garage in-wall or conduit

Running new romex to the panel - garage in-wall or conduit

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Old 05-25-15, 06:39 PM
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Running new romex to the panel - garage in-wall or conduit

I am in NJ...just in case of code requirements.

When I moved in to my current place, first thing I did is I had my main panel upgraded to 200Amps. The main panel is inside the garage which is attached to the house.
All cables are running up through the wall, then via the attic and then they drop down to each room/section of the house.

AS I am doing some new wiring I was able to pull the cable all the way to the point in the garage "attic" where all the existing cables then drop inside the wall....but I can't fit the new cables anymore....seems the space is pretty maxed out and crowded....I am wondering...instead of running the new cable for the last 6ft inside the garage wall, can I just make a new hole and then just drop it along the wall down to the panel?
Also, in that case, am I required to run them inside a conduit or can I just staple them to the garage wall ?

Thanks!
 
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Old 05-25-15, 07:00 PM
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Any cables below 6'7" will need to be sleeved in conduit. If this is not open studs is the panel flush with the wall? Are you going into the top?
 
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Old 05-25-15, 07:46 PM
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Hi Ray,
Does this rule apply to Ground as well ?
I am asking because the new panel was installed by electrician and he run the new ground along the wall about the knee high.

The panel is pretty much flash with the wall....It actually is attached to a large piece of plywood and the existing cables are just exiting the wall right on top of it and entering the panel from the top
 
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Old 05-25-15, 07:59 PM
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If the ground wire is #6 or larger it does not need protection. Carefully cut along the studs on either side of the panel up to the ceiling and remove the drywall. The reattach it when your done. You can leave it for future access or repair it.
 
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Old 05-27-15, 05:12 PM
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just to check....even though I am using romex, since the cable will be exposed and run about 3 ft of the ground - I was told I need to have it inside a PVC conduit and if I have more than few I need to ensure I have the right size conduit.
To me, it seems I can pull 2 romex 12/2 cables through 1/2 inch PVC pipe.... what about the code? Do I need bigger size pipe ?

Thanks!
 
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Old 05-27-15, 05:40 PM
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First of all, Romex is a registered trademark owned by the Southwire Corporation which bought the trademark when they bough the originator of the name from the Rome Cable Company. So, unless you are using cable manufactured by Southwire you are NOT using Romex but are using type NM non-metallic flexible cable.

That stated, no, you cannot push,pull or otherwise get two pieces of 12-2 type NM cable in a piece of 1/2 inch PVC conduit as the inside diameter of the conduit is simply too small. Your best avenue is to do as Tolyn suggested and remove the drywall above the panel, run the new cables and then re-affix the drywall or some other covering.
 
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Old 05-28-15, 05:42 PM
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Yes - I was well aware of the trademark...not that I care what brand of NM cable I use...I believe most people know the term and use it freely.... Walkman was a registered to SONY, but I can't recall anyone call Panasonic branded walkman a portable cassette player rather than just a walkman.

Physically I can pull 2 12-2 cables through 1/2inch PVC...I tried it in a store...wasn't much of a problem... just align the cables with their flat sides together....I was concerned about the code because I am sure there is a restriction on the diameter of the conduit and the number of current carrying wires inside that conduit. Granted, the code probably refers to typical situation where conduit must be used (wet / underground) rather than inside a garage but still good to follow the code.
 
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Old 05-28-15, 06:19 PM
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I included that bit about the Trademark because companies are getting really touchy about people misusing their Trademarks. There is a restaurant in the Seattle area that was using something not exact, but close to some company's registered Trademark and this company demanded the restaurant change the name of the meal. There is also a small mom&pop winery nearby that produces maybe 200 cases total a year that used their son's name on a particular bottle. The huge company that has the same name as their son as part of the company name demanded that the tiny operation cease and desist in using a name similar, but not even close to the full name of the large company or they would sue them into oblivion.

Trust me, if Panasonic or Onkyo or any other company had used the name Walkman Sony would have been all over them like stink on manure. And individuals are not exempt. I would hate to see this website be sued for allowing the generic usage of registered Trademarks. Even if the court eventually ruled against the Trademark owner there would still be the losses in defending the suit.


Now on to the REAL issue. The NEC neither allows nor disallows the use of cable assemblies in conduit. They DO, however, have very specific rules concerning conduit fill. For two single wires the maximum allowable fill is 31% of the total cross-sectional area of the conduit. For a single wire it is 53% and for more than two wires it is 40%. The only exception to these rules is when the total length of the conduit is 24 inches or less at which point it becomes a matter of simply not causing physical harm to the wires or insulation. there are also derating factors, as you know, that come into play when more than three current carrying conductors are in a conduit, cable or raceway of any kind, again, not applicable to conduits less than 24 inches in length.

Personally, from what you have related in this thread I see no reason to even consider running cable through conduit as there are much better methods available to offer protection to the cable. But go ahead and do whatever your little heart desires, at least you KNOW the rules now.
 
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Old 05-28-15, 06:40 PM
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It not just if you can get the cables into the pipe, it is also if there is enough room in the pipe for the wires to dissipate heat caused by current running through the cables. The code is not just a good idea, it is there for a reason, follow it!
 
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Old 05-28-15, 07:08 PM
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thanks guys - the % fill of conduit was what I was looking for.... For me it is simpler and nicer to buy $3 conduit and simply pull it down from the ceiling to the main panel rather than hack the drywall.
I will get me an 1 inch pipe which should be up to code per my calculations...but please correct me if I should get a bigger diameter.
 
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Old 05-28-15, 08:15 PM
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Without knowing the major diameter of the cable you are using, it is impossible for us to do an accurate calculation. (See Chapter 9, note 9, of the NEC) However, I suspect 1" should be for two 12/2 cables.
 
 

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