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Easy Project? Or Death Trap..My Logic Says There HAS to be a Way to do This...

Easy Project? Or Death Trap..My Logic Says There HAS to be a Way to do This...

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  #1  
Old 06-20-15, 01:44 PM
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Easy Project? Or Death Trap..My Logic Says There HAS to be a Way to do This...

Hi! So I am painting/re-doing part of the garage to be a work space for myself (I restore antiques) - anyway these are ZERO (not kidding folks in a garage - zero) electrical outlets. Well this makes any work near impossible in a garage. So - a friend of mine who said he knew what to do...uummmm...I don't think so..maybe but let me get to all of that...Photos are to help get an idea of what I am talking about (please do not mind the mess, still in the create stage)...I MUST have outlets...so here is where we are right now...

Along the back of the counter we have wired 3 outlets. These will be for small loads. The largest motor being a "crafting size", basic dremel. No large power tools. What I really need is lighting, to charge my phone, run the laptop, MAYBE a TV (new model). My friend originally was going to run from the switch for the overhead light - well a switch is only hot so that won't work, right? What I was thinking is can't we run the outlets from the ceiling fixture? Isn't it sort of a junction box in it's own right? Is this safe to do?

The previous owner had run a second ceiling light off the first and another wire coming from the ceiling light goes to a seriously frightening 3 receptacle, CRACKED bakelite plug...it is scary and needs to go. I want to do something like previous owner did. I will be disconnecting that second ceiling light. The electrical work the old man did was well, scary to say the least.

Anyway what I NEED is some kind of power out there. The wiring in the house is all original to 1946. It does however have upgraded circuit breakers. I am completely at a stand still until I can figure out how to safely power the outlets....help? Name:  elec3.jpg
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  #2  
Old 06-20-15, 03:53 PM
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I should also probably add as far as the basic wiring of the outlets I think we have that down ~ hot, neutral, ground and all of that. We understand the concept of pigtails, etc...I just want to make sure it is a safe idea to run the outlets from the ceiling light.

What I do not necessarily know if arching and overheating etc - just want it to be safe to run things and to plug and unplug. Thanks!!
 
  #3  
Old 06-20-15, 04:04 PM
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Welcome to the forums! You know it all has to come down, right? I nearly killed my mouse when I saw picture 2 & 3. Determine first what sort of circuit and the size you have from the breaker panel to the garage. Is it a detached garage? Determine, too, how that wiring from the breaker gets to the garage, as you may have to replace it with larger wiring to handle the loads. It is always best to have lighting on one circuit and receptacles on another, but nothing carved in stone.

There will be more respondents, so hang in there and answer our questions as best you can, and post pictures if you feel it will help us understand your situation.
 
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Old 06-20-15, 05:18 PM
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Hhaha ~ you actually made me crack up! Oh yes - that is all coming down! I should post a picture of the one receptacle thing he has going on...all cracked bakelite and taped up. If you actually saw some of the things that were here..well you would be calling authorities to have my kids removed. This is nothing, seriously. Thankfully when I first bought the house my Grandfather was still alive and he was a master electrician so we were able to fix the seriously dangerous.

It is an attached garage and the only thing that circuit, which is a 15 amp, is being used for right now is the garage and upstairs bath. And that consists of the single, 60 watt lightbulb in the ceiling, which is going to become a florescent workshop light. The upstairs bath is just one vanity light that has 3, 60 watt bulbs and obviously that does not run continuously, although my children seen to think it is supposed to. There are no outlets in the bath ~ in 1946 they saw no need for that nonsense.
 
  #5  
Old 06-20-15, 05:53 PM
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A number of changes need to be made. Hopefully, the panel box is, in the garage or close to it. It's nice that you have someone to help but he's not the guy to do the job. Leave the circuit that controls the bathroom separate & run another circuit, to the garage. I would probably make it 20 amp since there is always a good chance that you will decide to use more tools or add other things. Tell your friend that a 20 amp circuit requires 12/2 Romex, if he is going to help. Get rid of those wire hanging, from the ceiling. There are ways to connect lights but that isn't how it's done. Exposed cables are against code & insurance companies won't pay, if there is a fire. Those are some of the basics.
 
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Old 06-20-15, 08:45 PM
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Interesting in doing this right?
Got suck at least a dozen times having to have garages rewired because some one cheaped out and under wired it.
If I'm going to build a garage I'm going to have at least a 4 wire #6 wires ran to a 60 amp panel with two grounds at least 6' apart.
60 Amp double pole breaker in the house breaker box.
 
  #7  
Old 06-20-15, 08:54 PM
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Joe, that's when you are building a garage from scratch. I lived in houses that were built in the 20s. The OP's house was built in the 40s. You can't compare new construction to structures that were built 80 to 100 years ago. I have to laugh when people, in the forums say, that they live in an old house & it was built in the 70s. In NY, that's not old.
 
  #8  
Old 06-20-15, 08:59 PM
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So it's wrong how to suggest how to do it right?
Poster mentioned up graded circut breakers.
 
  #9  
Old 06-20-15, 09:22 PM
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Correcting the basics or adding all the bells are both right. They are just two different things. It's his choice.
 
  #10  
Old 06-21-15, 06:17 AM
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I nearly killed my mouse when I saw picture 2 & 3.
I cannot disagree with Chandler on pictures 1 & 2. Picture 1 screams DIYer with NO PERMIT!
 
  #11  
Old 06-21-15, 07:32 AM
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Many experts will suggest running 6-3 with ground even for an attached garage. (You can use NMB aka Romex for the attached garage while UF cable or THWN single wires would be needed for a detached garage.) This can be temporarily wired directly to the chain of receptacles provided that you use a 20 amp breaker set back in the main basement panel (15 amp if there is any 14 gauge wire in the circuit).

Put a breaker box (subpanel) in the garage when you are ready to upsize to a 60 amp breaker set in the basement panel when you need more power. The branch circuits going to the receptacles and lights must be on breakers of no more than 20 amps.

Two 12-3 NMB cables can be used instead of one 6-3 for an attached garage. You would have to learn about multiwire branch circuits when running either the 12-3 or the 6-3. Using the 12-3, even if you run more than one, you would not need a subpanel in the garage. But you would need more breaker slots in the basement panel, two slots for each 12-3 cable.

Technically you need to do a load analysis (rules in the back of the NEC code book) before starting this project. There is a possibility that the basement panel and incoming electrical service are not adequate to support electric heaters (picture #1?) in the garage even with the 6-3 cable from the panel to the garage.

Wiremold (tm) or similar covering or flexible conduit can be used for otherwise exposed indoor wiring.
 

Last edited by AllanJ; 06-21-15 at 07:51 AM.
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