new outlet before the breaker box

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  #1  
Old 07-12-15, 10:00 PM
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new outlet before the breaker box

I need to wire a new outlet box on a new circuit outside on the power pole - BEFORE the main panel in the house. As you can see on the pic, I have a workshop/shed about 100 feet from the house, and about 10 feet from the power pole and meter. I want need to install an outlet box right there at the pole so I don't have to run extension cords from the house. (I installed a swamp cooler today and I can only pull enough amperage to run it and nothing else. If I run one more extension cord inline it is too much and the swamp cooler motor wont run. (The cords get pretty warm also.)

[I] have bid the project out to a couple local electricians and got from $350-$500. since then I haven't been able to reach either one. They won't answer the phone or return messages - so I'm going to have to do it myself. What What do I need to buy and how do I go about tapping into the big supply wires running to the house?

The black with yellow stripe and the green wire are grounds I take it. The 2 black wires are each 125V. (when I touch the ground probe of mu multimeter to one of the 125v supply wires and the red probe to the other 125v supply I get 250v. How does that work if there is no ground with my meter?)

I am in Wyoming on the Wind River Indian Reservation outside of Fort Washakie. Definitely outside of town.

Thanks,
Nate


I can't get the dang pic to upload so here is a link to my facebook post with a copy of it. I flipped it before I saved it but for some reason it posted to facebook sideways.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

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Last edited by ray2047; 07-12-15 at 10:15 PM. Reason: Rotate and insert image.
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  #2  
Old 07-12-15, 10:24 PM
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You could install a small subpanel below the main disconnect panel. Then run your receptacle from the subpanel.

I flipped it before I saved it but for some reason it posted to facebook sideways.
If you mean you turned your phone that doesn't really flip the image. It just changes the way you view it. You need to use an image program such as Irfanview that changes the EXIF data that determines orientation.
 
  #3  
Old 07-12-15, 11:07 PM
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Would I just tap into one of the lugs there? And then run the ground back up into that bar on the left?
 
  #4  
Old 07-12-15, 11:41 PM
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So long as you use a steel nipple between the boxes you don't need a ground wire. You would need to connect your neutral to the bar on the left.

I would suggest a four or six space 60 amp main lug panel for your sub. It will come with a neutral bar but probably no ground bar. You will need to buy one and add it. You will not bond the neutral bar but the ground bar will be bonded. Use #6* (copper) THWN for the two hots and the neutral.

You can then run a 20 amp circuit for your receptacle from a 20 amp breaker in the sub panel. It must be GFCI protected.

Tech note. The reason you can run the #6 unfused to the sub panel is because of the tap rule.
10 foot Tap RULE

*The ampacity of the tap conductor is not less than the computed load in accordance with Art. 220, and not less than the rating of the device supplied by the tap conductors or the OCPD at the termination of the tap conductors.

The tap conductors aren't extended beyond the equipment they supply.

The tap conductors are installed in a raceway if they leave the enclosure.

The tap conductors have an ampacity of no less than 10% of the ampacity of the OCPD from which the conductors are tapped.
 
  #5  
Old 07-13-15, 04:50 AM
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What do you mean by bonded?
 
  #6  
Old 07-13-15, 07:07 AM
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Bonded means "connected to establish continuity and conductivity". Basically it means it is electrically connected together.
 
  #7  
Old 07-13-15, 09:42 AM
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It means the ground bar is electrically connected to the metal panel through the screws that hold it and the metal of the ground bar touching the metal of the box. .The neutral bar of the subpanel on the other hand is on plastic insulators. Electrically not in contact with the box.
 
  #8  
Old 07-14-15, 10:07 PM
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I am planning on running a swamp cooler or maybe a small ac unit in the summertime along with several shop lights and occasionally a leather sewing machine. *Possibly* a vending machine as well to keep pop cans cold, etc. In the wintertime I'll run all of the above except for possibly a space heater or two in lieu of the swamp cooler.

Is a 60 amp breaker going to be enough?
 
  #9  
Old 07-14-15, 11:02 PM
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What I have advised in this thread so far was based on your first post which I read as running power to one or two 120 volt receptacles on the power pole. What you are saying now is very different. How far is the shed?
 
  #10  
Old 07-14-15, 11:19 PM
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the shed is about 10 feet away from the pole.
Everything I plan on running are all 120V applications
 
  #11  
Old 07-15-15, 12:42 AM
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I want need to install an outlet box right there at the pole so I don't have to run extension cords from the house
But extension cords are only for temporary use and not to be used as a substitute for code required wiring and since you can only run one feed to the shed you will need to place a subpanel in the shed. You can no longer use the ten foot tap rule I stated. We can do it with the 25 foot tap rule but the requirements change.
25-ft feeder tap rule [240.21(B)(2)] — You don't have to install an OCPD at the tap point of a feeder tap if its length doesn't exceed 25 ft and if it meets the following requirements:

The ampacity of the tap conductors is not less than ⅓ the ampacity of the OCPD protecting the feeder.

The tap conductors are terminated in a single circuit breaker or set of fuses having a rating no greater than the conductor ampacity as listed in Table 310.16.

The tap conductors are suitably protected from physical damage or enclosed in a raceway.
Based on my interpretation (but I'm not a pro) of that I would suggest a 12 space, 100 amp, main breaker panel in the shed fed by a minimum of #3 copper THWN for the two hot and one neutral and a #8 for ground in 1" PVC conduit. You will also need to install one or two ground rods (depending on local requirements) at the shed.

Above assumes a maximum of a 200 amp first OCPD on the pole.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 07-15-15 at 01:10 AM.
  #12  
Old 07-15-15, 06:51 AM
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I agree 100% with Ray's advice. It wouldn't make sence to only run a 120 volt feeder to the shed. 25' taprule would apply.
 
  #13  
Old 07-15-15, 08:34 AM
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Thank you for all your help!
 
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