Electrician says I need a new breaker panel
#1
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Electrician says I need a new breaker panel
This is my panel. I have 200amp service it was installed in 1976. I think it's a Seimens not sure. What he is telling me is there are too many circuits in the pannel, he said there should be 20 and there are 33, he wants to install a 40.
I understand all of that. But what is the risk? Why can't you put 33 in a 20 box? Is there some sort of fire risk? He wants about $1000 to replace the panel. I figure if it ain't broke... but at the same time I don't want to risk my family's safety.
I understand all of that. But what is the risk? Why can't you put 33 in a 20 box? Is there some sort of fire risk? He wants about $1000 to replace the panel. I figure if it ain't broke... but at the same time I don't want to risk my family's safety.
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The box is mounted in a traditional VERTICAL fashion. The image is horizontal for some reason. Also I have A/C, an electrical water heater, and some electrical baseboard heaters in the basement which I never use. Those are my big current items.
#3
He probably meant more tandem breakers then the panel is rated for. Ask him the cost of adding a subpanel instead or you could do that yourself.
If you used a phone turning your phone isn't enough. You need to use an image program to change the orientation.
The image is horizontal for some reason
#4
Could you also include a close up picture of the panel label which should be on the inside of the door? Try to get the model number area. At first glance, the electrician is probably correct that this panel has many more circuits than it was designed for. Someone probably modified those tandem breakers by breaking the tab on the back in order to make them fit which is certainly against manufacturer design. The panel label should have the exact details.
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So my question really is not weather I have more circuits that I'm supposed to in that box which I am pretty sure I do since I was told 7 years ago when I moved in and I'm being told now, it's is it safe? Is the risk high that something could go wrong with 33 being in there or is the risk relatively low?
Jeff
Jeff
#6
Well there are a few problems. One is that overloaded equipment can overheat, pinch wires, etc. Those breakers in the middle slots also have been cracked open in order to make them fit into the slots they aren't supposed to be in. What damage or unexpected failures might that cause? Who knows? You cannot install AFCI breakers in tandem slots which means you can't legally install new circuits anywhere in living spaces, and those that have been installed recently may have been done against code. PA probably had AFCI code ~10-12 years ago. You also know that all of those added circuits were done without permits or inspections so who knows what else is hiding.
What's the risk? I don't know, I can't quantify it other than to say somebody didn't pay attention to codes and cut corners to avoid buying the proper equipment for the job.
That said, the electrician's quote is certainly in the reasonable range for a 40 space panel replacement.
What's the risk? I don't know, I can't quantify it other than to say somebody didn't pay attention to codes and cut corners to avoid buying the proper equipment for the job.
That said, the electrician's quote is certainly in the reasonable range for a 40 space panel replacement.
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You have a 20 space/30 circuit panel so if you have 33 circuits you are three over. Now technically that is a violation but as far as a real hazard it is probably fairly minor.
You could easily add a sub-panel and move five circuits to the sub-panel. I would suggest an eight space/sixteen circuit Siemens panel.
You could easily add a sub-panel and move five circuits to the sub-panel. I would suggest an eight space/sixteen circuit Siemens panel.
#8
I agree that you need a subpanel and also agree that this is a 20 space, 30 circuit panel. The top 5 spaces on each side should not have any tandems or quad breakers in them. Most likely the tandems in those spaces are non-CTL tandems (a code violation), but as far as I know, there is no such thing as a non-CTL quad breaker, the quads have been altered (a code violation) to fit those top 5 spaces. This is the sign of an either an unethical electrician's work or the work of a previous ignorant homeowner. What no one knows is if when the breakers were altered to fit the panel is were the breakers damaged when doing so?
#9
Installing a new primary service panel usually requires coordination with the power company to pull the meter in order to de-energize the wiring coming into the panel. And usually a professional electrician can do the coordination more easily so that your house has power cut for a minimum length of time.
Installing a subpanel is usually a do it yourself project and does not require cutting power to the whole house. The subpanel may be positioned next to its supra-panel if desired.
Installing a subpanel is usually a do it yourself project and does not require cutting power to the whole house. The subpanel may be positioned next to its supra-panel if desired.