Replacing receptacle on metal well

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  #1  
Old 09-11-15, 09:46 AM
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Replacing receptacle on metal well

I'm replacing the junction box and receptacle on an artesian well. The receptacle runs 2 heat tapes.
The old receptacle is rusted shut so I had to cut the wires to remove the box.
The old box was hung from a collar.
How do I attach the new junction box and cover to the well now?
Secondly, one of the heat tapes has W on it, so how do I strip the wires (picture attached)?
The other cable is nm cable that comed out of a pipe.
The entire well is covered by a wood box to protect from the weather.

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Last edited by ray2047; 09-11-15 at 10:27 AM. Reason: Add enlarged images.
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  #2  
Old 09-11-15, 10:38 AM
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How do I attach the new junction box and cover to the well now?
I wouldn't. I'd put in a short 4x4x post and fasten the box to it. Use a PVC weather proof box and a short length of PVC conduit to protect the cable from ground to box.
The other cable is nm cable that comed out of a pipe.
NM cable can not be used. It will need to be replace with UF cable or individual conductors in PVC conduit. The receptacle in your picture is not a GFCI. Unless the circuit is on a GFCI breaker a non GFCI receptacle can not be used.
 
  #3  
Old 09-11-15, 10:47 AM
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The black plug has a gfci on it so I can't put 2 gfci's together.
If the junction box is attached to a wood pole does it need to be protected otherwise it will rust? The weather proof box I have goes on the front but doesn't cover the metal.
The nm cable comes out of a pipe in the ground now so isn't that OK? Edit just checked... it's 14/2 NMWU
 

Last edited by qwertyjjj; 09-11-15 at 11:06 AM.
  #4  
Old 09-11-15, 04:41 PM
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The old box was full of dead ants. Anyway to keep these out of the junction box?
 
  #5  
Old 09-11-15, 04:52 PM
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If you use a wood post.... spray it with liquid ant killer.
 
  #6  
Old 09-11-15, 04:59 PM
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The black plug has a gfci on it so I can't put 2 gfci's together.
They serve slightly different purposes. The receptacle must be GFCI protected. There is no exception.
it's 14/2 NMWU
OOPS I gave you a south of the border answer. Just noticed your in Canada. Your cable designations are different That is okay (W=wet location U= underground).
 
  #7  
Old 09-11-15, 06:20 PM
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The gfci on the plug is a bit corroded so if I'm putting a gfci receptacle in can I just cut away the plug's gfci and replace it with a standard plug?
 
  #8  
Old 09-12-15, 12:56 PM
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The weather proof box doesn't seem to have any mount points. How should I attach this to the wood?
Secondly, the box connectors that screw in - do they need any rubber gaskets to keep water out?
http://s5.postimg.org/6j5vq63ef/IMG_...256763_HDR.jpg

 
  #9  
Old 09-12-15, 03:02 PM
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You might want to take that one back and get one with mounting ears.

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  #10  
Old 09-12-15, 03:46 PM
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It has 2 brackets it cane with but they need to be screwed in somehow but surely it needs 4.
Why would it come without mounting points - kind of bizarre!
Only other thing I can think of is metal screws into the back of it somehow


Are rubber gaskets needed for the wire clamps?
 

Last edited by qwertyjjj; 09-12-15 at 04:07 PM.
  #11  
Old 09-12-15, 04:30 PM
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Two is fine and is all the manufacture requires.

Outdoors you can not just use NM cable clamps. The cable needs to be protected so I would suggest sleeving it with PVC conduit. Just thread a PVC male adapter into the hole of the WP box.
 
  #12  
Old 09-12-15, 08:09 PM
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A PVC male adapter isn't watertight though?
Presumably none of this stops humidity or condensation on the inside in case of minor temp f differences?

Or do you mean a PVC pipe all the way from the underground conduit directly into the box? In which case, what holds the cable in place so there is no tension on the splice?
 
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Old 09-12-15, 08:14 PM
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do you mean a PVC pipe all the way from the underground conduit directly into the box?
That would be best. .
 
  #14  
Old 09-12-15, 08:33 PM
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The underground conduit looks like a flexible black pipe so I can't glue anything. Can maybe tape it.
How do I secure the NM cable without clamps to the box? Or should the clamps be on the inside of the conduit?
 

Last edited by qwertyjjj; 09-12-15 at 09:11 PM.
  #15  
Old 09-12-15, 09:44 PM
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How do I secure the NM cable without clamps to the box?
Use waterproof connectors. Example: UF Cable Watertight Connector, 1/2" (2462) at Aubuchon Hardware

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  #16  
Old 09-15-15, 05:50 AM
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The source line comes out of a black flex pipe in the ground but I cannot glue the grey PVC pipe to that. Is there a way I can caulk these together?
 
  #17  
Old 09-15-15, 06:10 AM
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he source line comes out of a black flex pipe in the ground
Not that I know of. Not even sure what type of "pipe" or if it should even have been used. Maybe someone else does. Here most pumps here have a pump house built over them with would solve some of you problems since the electrical would be protected from weather.

Please post a picture of the "pipe". Maybe someone will have an idea. http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...ml#post1616710

I don't think this really is a DIY situation. I think you need to call an electrician.
 
  #18  
Old 09-15-15, 06:37 AM
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If you'd seen what the last electrician did with some stuff, honestly I'm happier doing it myself
Admittedly they connected it all up in winter, so it might have been cold and difficult for them but there was no waterproofing and maybe GFCI didn't exist in the code at the time.
Can't upload files the forum way unfortunately as they are too big and it just errors.

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  #19  
Old 09-15-15, 09:32 AM
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I really just don't know how to advise you further on doing the work. As I said I'd build a small shed maybe 4'x4'x 6'high with a door over the area. Then you wouldn't have to worry about weather proof fittings but I know that is out side of the scope of what you want to do. (A box setting over it doesn't really count as a shed.) If I went with what you have I'd order what I need on line instead of making do with what I could buy locally. Also still not to clear on what you have.
  • Did the electrician run a separate line to power that receptacle?
  • If not what is powering it?
  • How were the heat tapes previously connected?
  • Were they plugged in?
  • If so what happened to the plugs

Maybe you have answered all this before and I just forgot. Sorry if that is the case.

Edit: Simplest is to replace the heat tapes with ones the have factory installed plugs and plug them into the receptacle. Any other way is just doing a crappy job in my opinion.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 09-15-15 at 10:39 AM.
  #20  
Old 09-15-15, 02:20 PM
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ANSWERS BELOW:

I really just don't know how to advise you further on doing the work. As I said I'd build a small shed maybe 4'x4'x 6'high with a door over the area. Then you wouldn't have to worry about weather proof fittings but I know that is out side of the scope of what you want to do. (A box setting over it doesn't really count as a shed.)
YEP AGREED BUT IT'S WHAT THE ELECTRICIAN PUT THERE BEFORE. IT SEEMS TO BLOCK ALL THE WATER OUT. THERE WERE NO WATERPROOF CONNECTIONS BEFORE JUST A WP BOX WITH NORMAL CLAMPS.

If I went with what you have I'd order what I need on line instead of making do with what I could buy locally. Also still not to clear on what you have.
Did the electrician run a separate line to power that receptacle? YES, IT'S A DEDICATED 15A LINE.
If not what is powering it?
How were the heat tapes previously connected? ONE TAPE WAS PLUGGED IN. THIS WRAPS AROUND THE PIPE FEEDING THE HOUSE.
THE OTHER TAPE IS WRAPPED AROUND THE WELL - IT WAS CONNECTED DIRECTLY INSIDE THE BOX.
THERE WAS NO GFCI BEFORE, WHICH IS WHY I'M NOW WORRIED ABOUT CONDENSATION FROM THE SMALL PART OF HEAT TAPE ACTIV INSIDE THE WP BOX. I COULD OF COURSE SLICE THE PLASTIC LONGER SO IT'S ONLY HEATING OUTSIDE THE WP BOX.


Were they plugged in? ONE PLUGGED IN, ONE NOT. I CAN COPY THAT SETUP, I WAS JUST WONDERING IF I CAN ADD A PLUG TO THE HEAT TAPE.
If so what happened to the plugs


Maybe you have answered all this before and I just forgot. Sorry if that is the case.
I KNOW I'VE HAD A LOT OF QUESTIONS, SORRY - IT'S JUST THE ORIGINAL WORK DIDN'T SEEM RIGHT EITHER!

Edit: Simplest is to replace the heat tapes with ones the have factory installed plugs and plug them into the receptacle. Any other way is just doing a crappy job in my opinion.
I THINK TO DO THAT I HAVE TO DIG DOWN 6FT AND UNWRAP THE CURRENT ONE, WHICH IS A BIG JOB IF IT'S STILL WORKING.

Couple of remaining questions:
1/ Is the small part of heat tape inside the GFCI likely to generate condensation, which in turn will be more likely to trip the GFCI?
2/ Is there anything on the market where I could make a splice connection with the heat tape and then use a flexible cable to the GFCI? Like this to make the connection outside the box?
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/heat...ing-kit/995954
You see these on gutter cables sometimes as a small plastic block like this:
 
  #21  
Old 09-15-15, 03:01 PM
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1/ Is the small part of heat tape inside the GFCI likely to generate condensation, which in turn will be more likely to trip the GFCI?
I doubt it.
2/ Is there anything on the market where I could make a splice connection with the heat tape and then use a flexible cable to the GFCI? Like this to make the connection outside the box?
Your link wasn't good. I'd do it in a single gang weather proof box using weather proof connectors. They make water proof splice kits for connecting cable to cable but you need to connect cable to cord (SOW cord or Canadian equivelent).
I THINK TO DO THAT I HAVE TO DIG DOWN 6FT AND UNWRAP THE CURRENT ONE
You can bury hear tapes? I didn't know that. Never lived where heat tapes were used and really should back off probably advising you.
 
  #22  
Old 09-15-15, 03:35 PM
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Something like this:
Bur-Cam | Heat Shrink Splicing Kit | Home Depot Canada

View image: IMG 20150915 082049213 HDR

Yeah, both these heat tapes are buried.
One is wrapped around the metal artesian well presumably down to the frost line.
The other is wrapped around the pipe that comes from the well to the house, pushed by the pump. Unless they go inside the pipes at some point but I can't understand why they would do that underground. One is taped to the outside of the well with a type of scotch tape wrap to keep it in place.
 
  #23  
Old 09-15-15, 04:16 PM
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The splice kit would probably be okay.
 
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