Is this possible?
#1
09-13-15, 07:34 PM
Is this possible?
I'm reaching out to our electrical experts.
Today a customer came in asking for a wire nut with a hole in the end for a ground wire to pass through. He claims his electrician used one recently so that a pig tail was not needed. Instead three ground wires (bear copper) twisted together, but two were cut even while one was left longer to pass through the center hole and in turn attached to the fixture instead of twisting a pig tail to make the fixture connection. Am I making sense? Does this exist? If what is it called and can you show me a picture?
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Same day another customer comes in and asked my advise after coming from Lowe's. He buys a 15 amp circuit breaker from them because his existing one blew out (it rattles and will trip if hit on the end). He claims that his old one had no black wire attached to the connection screw. The Lowe's people told him it was not needed because the connection is made internally.
I'm not an electrician but I've changed several circuit breakers in my life. The breaker switch, using a bayonet blade or accepts blade a attaches to the main bar and the black feed line going to my circuit connects to the screw insert on the opposite side. The white (neutral) wire connects to the neutral bar. Correct?
I told him that his circuit won't be made unless the black wire is connected to the breaker. He agrees but he also says it never was in his box with the old unit and Lowe's told him it's not needed. I suspect his black wire came loose and he did not notice it when he removed old breaker (maybe that is why the breaker shorted out due to a loose load wire connecting and un-connecting). BTW... his home and circuit box is at least 15 years old. So it's not new technology.
Anyway, I'm prepared to eat crow and learn something new. But is there such a thing as an internal connected circuit breaker that needs no black wire connected to it?
I asked him to take a picture of his circuit box and bring it in. But he never returned. At least not tonight.
Today a customer came in asking for a wire nut with a hole in the end for a ground wire to pass through. He claims his electrician used one recently so that a pig tail was not needed. Instead three ground wires (bear copper) twisted together, but two were cut even while one was left longer to pass through the center hole and in turn attached to the fixture instead of twisting a pig tail to make the fixture connection. Am I making sense? Does this exist? If what is it called and can you show me a picture?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Same day another customer comes in and asked my advise after coming from Lowe's. He buys a 15 amp circuit breaker from them because his existing one blew out (it rattles and will trip if hit on the end). He claims that his old one had no black wire attached to the connection screw. The Lowe's people told him it was not needed because the connection is made internally.
I'm not an electrician but I've changed several circuit breakers in my life. The breaker switch, using a bayonet blade or accepts blade a attaches to the main bar and the black feed line going to my circuit connects to the screw insert on the opposite side. The white (neutral) wire connects to the neutral bar. Correct?
I told him that his circuit won't be made unless the black wire is connected to the breaker. He agrees but he also says it never was in his box with the old unit and Lowe's told him it's not needed. I suspect his black wire came loose and he did not notice it when he removed old breaker (maybe that is why the breaker shorted out due to a loose load wire connecting and un-connecting). BTW... his home and circuit box is at least 15 years old. So it's not new technology.
Anyway, I'm prepared to eat crow and learn something new. But is there such a thing as an internal connected circuit breaker that needs no black wire connected to it?
I asked him to take a picture of his circuit box and bring it in. But he never returned. At least not tonight.
#2
09-13-15, 07:39 PM
Member
Those wire nuts are pretty common: Ideal Greenie Grounding Wire Connectors 92 Green (100 per Package)-30-192P - The Home Depot
I think you're right about the missing black wire...probably came loose. The circuit breaker is fed from the buss in the panel, but the load connects via that black wire.
I think you're right about the missing black wire...probably came loose. The circuit breaker is fed from the buss in the panel, but the load connects via that black wire.
#3
09-13-15, 07:41 PM
Green wire nut.
the black feed line going to my circuit connects to the screw insert on the opposite side. The white (neutral) wire connects to the neutral bar. Correct?
Dang, carbide types faster.
#4
09-13-15, 07:44 PM
Forum Topic Moderator
Without a wire on the breaker there is no way for the power to get into the circuit under normal circumstances. If someone connected to a hot lug the breaker would not be needed, but this is not how a circuit should be wired.
#5
09-13-15, 07:49 PM
Thanks guys. Never saw the green grounding nut before. We don't carry them. But we don't carry a lot of things. 
Learn something everyday.
The circuit breaker...thought I was going nuts. OH GOD those guys at the big box stores can drive a person to drink.
I'm hoping the guy comes back, and I hope he did not electrocute himself.
Learn something everyday.The circuit breaker...thought I was going nuts. OH GOD those guys at the big box stores can drive a person to drink.
I'm hoping the guy comes back, and I hope he did not electrocute himself.
#6
09-13-15, 08:54 PM
"The connection was made internally."
I have not seen any but perhaps some breakers have you insert the branch circuit wire in a hole and then you tighten the screw that activates a clamp to hold the wire in the hole.
I have not seen any but perhaps some breakers have you insert the branch circuit wire in a hole and then you tighten the screw that activates a clamp to hold the wire in the hole.
#7
09-13-15, 09:09 PM
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He claims that his old one had no black wire attached to the connection screw. The Lowe's people told him it was not needed because the connection is made internally
#8
09-14-15, 04:44 AM
Brian, I also thought that and specially asked him what the circuit controlled. The reason he bought the new breaker is because he lost a set of lights in the home. And besides the old breaker is bad. Inspecting the old breaker, if you set it then give it a slight wrap against your hand it would trip. It also rattled as if lots of broken pieces were inside. I still think the screw holding the branch circuit was never properly tightened. With repeated surges it loosened to the point of slipping out. I bet if I could see the inside of his box it would show burn marks. But the breaker looked clean.
#9
09-14-15, 07:04 AM
If a breaker actually "blew out" to the point that it shattered internal parts, I would be really concerned that the main panel bus bars are also shot and perhaps adjacent breakers too.
#10
09-14-15, 02:22 PM
Group Moderator
Many times when I hear people tell me stuff that doesn't make sense and they say "That guy at *enter name of big box store here* told be that" I figure two things:
1) The person at the store didn't understand what the customer was telling them.
2) The customer did not understand what the store employee was telling them.
More often then not is was a miscommunication.
I recall a friend of ours asking me to come out to wire up a "Piggyback" for some guys working on their pool. They said they needed a 30 amp circuit, 240 volt. Now, confused I go out there to take a look and the wife hands me a whip with a cord cap on it. I ask her "Are you sure they didn't call it a pigtail?" She sheepishly smiles and says, "Yeah, that's it."
No problem, I was able to connect it up with no issues.
1) The person at the store didn't understand what the customer was telling them.
2) The customer did not understand what the store employee was telling them.
More often then not is was a miscommunication.
I recall a friend of ours asking me to come out to wire up a "Piggyback" for some guys working on their pool. They said they needed a 30 amp circuit, 240 volt. Now, confused I go out there to take a look and the wife hands me a whip with a cord cap on it. I ask her "Are you sure they didn't call it a pigtail?" She sheepishly smiles and says, "Yeah, that's it."
No problem, I was able to connect it up with no issues.
Last edited by Tolyn Ironhand; 09-14-15 at 03:11 PM.
