Metal Electrical Box loose
#1
09-14-15, 08:14 AM
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Metal Electrical Box loose
I bought an apt in a building built in the 60s. It has the old two pronged electrical outlets. In the outlet near the kitchen sink I need to replace the old receptacle with a GFCI receptacle. Upon removing the cover, I realized to my displeasure that whoever cut the original hole in the drywall made the cut too big, so that the metal box BARELY catches on the wall and it is (not surprisingly) loose. The box is not nailed to any studs so as you can imagine it’s a precarious situation.
The drywall itself in the area is covered by a piece of plywood, which appears to have been put on top of the drywall when the kitchen sink was renovated.
Can anyone suggest any method that I can use to better secure the metal box before I put in the new GFCI receptacle? Could I pull the box out and secure it against the plywood somehow? Please see photos.
Thank you.
The drywall itself in the area is covered by a piece of plywood, which appears to have been put on top of the drywall when the kitchen sink was renovated.
Can anyone suggest any method that I can use to better secure the metal box before I put in the new GFCI receptacle? Could I pull the box out and secure it against the plywood somehow? Please see photos.
Thank you.
#2
09-14-15, 08:25 AM
Yes the face of the box needs to come out flush with the plywood -- electrical code does not permit any distance recessed into flammable building material. You'll need to carefully cut the plywood a little wider with a jigsaw or sawzall to allow that. You may be able to reuse the existing box by hanging it from the plywood using metal "F" straps. It would probably be easier however to remove the existing box entirely and replace it with an "old work" style plastic box, which is a little larger than the metal box and has tabs that extend out to grab the plywood.
#3
09-14-15, 09:41 AM
City Staten Island
#4
09-14-15, 11:04 AM
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The current box definitely does not have a conduit. In order for me to install it I imagine I would need to take the whole wall apart.
Also, PVC boxes are not allowed in NYC so I am stuck with metal.
In regards to the current metal box, I am thinking of pulling out the box beyond the plywood after I slightly widen the hole (hopefully it won't be a problem with the wires not moving, I have not tried) and installing one small flat metal bar at the top of the cut and one at the bottom. (The current size of the hole in the plywood is too long to support the box.)
Secure these bars on both sides of the cut, and then using them to secure against the top and bottom of the metal box, and utilize the F clips (same as Madison clips?). These bars would function as the top and bottom of the drywall against which the box would rest--had the original electrician not cut the hole too big.
Does this sound reasonable? Would the metal bars I mentioned present any danger? They would be behind the cover once everything's done.
Also, PVC boxes are not allowed in NYC so I am stuck with metal.
In regards to the current metal box, I am thinking of pulling out the box beyond the plywood after I slightly widen the hole (hopefully it won't be a problem with the wires not moving, I have not tried) and installing one small flat metal bar at the top of the cut and one at the bottom. (The current size of the hole in the plywood is too long to support the box.)
Secure these bars on both sides of the cut, and then using them to secure against the top and bottom of the metal box, and utilize the F clips (same as Madison clips?). These bars would function as the top and bottom of the drywall against which the box would rest--had the original electrician not cut the hole too big.
Does this sound reasonable? Would the metal bars I mentioned present any danger? They would be behind the cover once everything's done.
#6
09-14-15, 12:29 PM
and installing one small flat metal bar at the top of the cut and one at the bottom.
#7
09-14-15, 01:06 PM
Group Moderator
Since you have BX cable there you have to stay with a metal box anyway.
Not a bad idea with gluing a piece of wood in. I'd get the box out of the wall and then try gluing a piece of wood at the top or the bottom. You need some support for the box ears to sit on.
Then when you reinstall the box you can use madison bars or the box Ray suggested.
Not a bad idea with gluing a piece of wood in. I'd get the box out of the wall and then try gluing a piece of wood at the top or the bottom. You need some support for the box ears to sit on.
Then when you reinstall the box you can use madison bars or the box Ray suggested.
#8
09-14-15, 01:53 PM
Forum Topic Moderator
If you get the wood strip glued in, you can reverse the bracket and screw the box to the wood. Spackle over the strip.
#9
09-21-15, 12:00 PM
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I have purchased two U Bolts to use the plates (these actually cost less than just the plates) to use in the manner suggested.
I just want to make sure that it's ok to use metal plates instead of wood. Would using metal to "sandwich" the wall box create electrocution or fire risk?
Thank you.
I just want to make sure that it's ok to use metal plates instead of wood. Would using metal to "sandwich" the wall box create electrocution or fire risk?
Thank you.
#11
10-04-15, 10:01 PM
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I finally managed to get the box out of the wall. But after all that, I find that there's no power!
The wires were too short, I could not make the J hook shape and hook them on the 4 screws, so I ended up putting all 4 wires (there's no ground wire) into the holes at the back and tightened the screws. I thought this is an ok alternate way of hooking up the outlet?
Now there's no power to the fridge and no power in the adjacent outlet which powers the stove. I still have gas but no spark to light the stove. They went out after I cut the wires to the old outlet, but now that I put the GFCI in, still nothing.
Before I call the electrician, is there anything I can try to troubleshoot? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
I am sorry for the poor pic quality. My cellphone broke. I had to use an old cellphone to take the pics.
PS, although the top neutral wire in the second pic looks like it is not all the way in, it actually is all the way in, I stripped away too much insulation.
The wires were too short, I could not make the J hook shape and hook them on the 4 screws, so I ended up putting all 4 wires (there's no ground wire) into the holes at the back and tightened the screws. I thought this is an ok alternate way of hooking up the outlet?
Now there's no power to the fridge and no power in the adjacent outlet which powers the stove. I still have gas but no spark to light the stove. They went out after I cut the wires to the old outlet, but now that I put the GFCI in, still nothing.
Before I call the electrician, is there anything I can try to troubleshoot? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
I am sorry for the poor pic quality. My cellphone broke. I had to use an old cellphone to take the pics.
PS, although the top neutral wire in the second pic looks like it is not all the way in, it actually is all the way in, I stripped away too much insulation.
