Meter socket to disconnect to sub panel...
#1
09-19-15, 02:28 PM
Meter socket to disconnect to sub panel...
Hey all,
I'm running 100 amp service to garage. separate building. starting at meter socket which is 320 amp dbl lug going to sub panel in garage running 4 wires al 2-2-4-6 neutral/ground bonded in meter socket then separate in sub panel with grounding rod.Everything going great cause I was using the sub panel sticky in this forum.
But eletc. company wants a disconnect after the meter socket GRRRR....so I got one but it only has 3 lugs two for hots and one for neutral so my question is do I need to install a grounding bar in my d/c for my 4th wire.
I'm running 100 amp service to garage. separate building. starting at meter socket which is 320 amp dbl lug going to sub panel in garage running 4 wires al 2-2-4-6 neutral/ground bonded in meter socket then separate in sub panel with grounding rod.Everything going great cause I was using the sub panel sticky in this forum.
But eletc. company wants a disconnect after the meter socket GRRRR....so I got one but it only has 3 lugs two for hots and one for neutral so my question is do I need to install a grounding bar in my d/c for my 4th wire.
#2
09-19-15, 03:21 PM
Group Moderator
There needs to be disconnect switches within 6' of the meter or as close as possible.
Do you not currently have any circuit breakers AT the meter location ?
Typically..... you can't connect multiple sub panels to a meter without there being a main breaker panel at the meter.
Do you not currently have any circuit breakers AT the meter location ?
Typically..... you can't connect multiple sub panels to a meter without there being a main breaker panel at the meter.
#4
09-19-15, 04:18 PM
Group Moderator
Yes.... main breaker box for the house. Is it a large amperage panel with one breaker for the house ?
You would have a meter, than a high amperage breaker panel. A two pole breaker for the house in it. A second two pole 100A breaker for the garage.
Here, the power company doesn't connect two sets of lines to the meter. You are required to put in a multiple breaker disconnect panel.
You would have a meter, than a high amperage breaker panel. A two pole breaker for the house in it. A second two pole 100A breaker for the garage.
Here, the power company doesn't connect two sets of lines to the meter. You are required to put in a multiple breaker disconnect panel.
#5
09-19-15, 04:40 PM
Yes.... main breaker box for the house. Is it a large amperage panel with one breaker for the house ?
All I have is a 320 amp double lug meter socket, no breakers in it at all. It feeds a 200 amp breaker box in the house.
the power company here said use a 320 amp double lug meter socket.
Everything i've done so far is good to go,my question is about the d/c they now say I need.
#6
09-19-15, 07:25 PM
Group Moderator
I can't answer your question.
I need to know how your house is connected to the meter.
How far is your house panel from the meter location ?
Is there ANY panel with a breaker for the house panel AT the meter ?
We need to determine where the ground rods are connected in your system.
I need to know how your house is connected to the meter.
How far is your house panel from the meter location ?
Is there ANY panel with a breaker for the house panel AT the meter ?
We need to determine where the ground rods are connected in your system.
#7
09-19-15, 08:31 PM
Forum Topic Moderator
You sound like you are setting a second service. The services must be grouped so the house and garage disconnect must be next to each other.
#8
09-20-15, 07:00 AM
PJmax
I can't answer your question.
I need to know how your house is connected to the meter.
I can't answer your question.
I need to know how your house is connected to the meter.
How far is your house panel from the meter location ?
Is there ANY panel with a breaker for the house panel AT the meter ?
We need to determine where the ground rods are connected in your system.
#9
09-20-15, 07:57 AM
Group Moderator
Yes, you need a disconnect next to the meter because otherwise the conductors to the garage would be unfused.
Nipple the disconnect to the meter socket and run #4 copper, or #2 aluminum, from the double lugs to the LINE lugs of the disconnect. If your nipple is through any concentric/ecentric KO's you will need to bond around the nipple. (or bond it using two grounding bushings) Then the feed to the garage will come off the LOAD of the disconnect. The disconnect should also be connected to the ground rods.
Nipple the disconnect to the meter socket and run #4 copper, or #2 aluminum, from the double lugs to the LINE lugs of the disconnect. If your nipple is through any concentric/ecentric KO's you will need to bond around the nipple. (or bond it using two grounding bushings) Then the feed to the garage will come off the LOAD of the disconnect. The disconnect should also be connected to the ground rods.
#10
09-20-15, 09:53 AM
Forum Topic Moderator
Scott, the issue I see with that is you now have a disconnect outside and one inside that are not grouped.
#11
09-20-15, 11:14 AM
Group Moderator
The disconnect on the outside would not serve the house, only the shed. I read the six disconnect rule as when you have more then one feeder, or branch circuit, in a single structure.
#12
09-20-15, 11:24 AM
Forum Topic Moderator
But it says the services will be grouped. You have a service for the house inside and now one outside for the outbuilding. I would not consider that grouped. On a job I did the house already had a 200. The addition also got a 200. I had the new panel right next to a disconnect for the old panel to satisfy the grouping. The old panel was refer from the disconnect.
#13
09-20-15, 01:20 PM
Tolyn Ironhand
Yes, you need a disconnect next to the meter because otherwise the conductors to the garage would be unfused.
Nipple the disconnect to the meter socket and run #4 copper, or #2 aluminum, from the double lugs to the LINE lugs of the disconnect. If your nipple is through any concentric/ecentric KO's you will need to bond around the nipple. (or bond it using two grounding bushings) Then the feed to the garage will come off the LOAD of the disconnect. The disconnect should also be connected to the ground rods.
Yes, you need a disconnect next to the meter because otherwise the conductors to the garage would be unfused.
Nipple the disconnect to the meter socket and run #4 copper, or #2 aluminum, from the double lugs to the LINE lugs of the disconnect. If your nipple is through any concentric/ecentric KO's you will need to bond around the nipple. (or bond it using two grounding bushings) Then the feed to the garage will come off the LOAD of the disconnect. The disconnect should also be connected to the ground rods.
NEC does not exist where I live.
My plans was before I was told to install a D/C was:
run 4 wires 2-2-4-6 MHF AL to the garage and within the meter socket have the 2 loads lines and then have the neutral and ground bonded (togather) in meter socket. The 4 line would go to sub panel inside the garage then the neutral and ground would get separated and install grounding rod and ground wire going to it.
Then I was told to install a d/c, but the one I got only has 3 lugs (3 for load side and 3 for line side) see picture in first post.
the d/c does not have a grounding bar installed in it.
do i need to install grounding bar so I can use the 2-2-4-6 with what I have already installed or???
#14
09-20-15, 01:44 PM
Group Moderator
Yes.... you will need the ground bar.
Gray area here....
I'm pretty sure you will need to connect that ground bar to the same location where the ground(s) are connected.
Gray area here....
I'm pretty sure you will need to connect that ground bar to the same location where the ground(s) are connected.
#15
09-20-15, 02:12 PM
Group Moderator
On your job you installed another service that was serving the same building. That is why you would need the "extra" disconnect and they would need to be grouped. He is installing a 2nd service but it does not serve that building.
According to 230.70:
"Means shall be provided to disconnect all conductors in a building or other structure from the service entrance conductors"
With the shed disconnect mounted on the outside of the house, and the conductors not entering the building, IMO they do not need to be grouped.
After thinking about it, I do not think he is required to install a disconnect at all. But if that is what the PoCo wants, that is what they will get.
The disconnect would be a 2nd service. You only need 3 wires and the neutral bar should be bonded to the metal enclosure. The grounds should be connected to the neutral bar, or to a ground bar attached to the steel enclosure. After the new disconnect you will need a 4 wire feeder.
According to 230.70:
"Means shall be provided to disconnect all conductors in a building or other structure from the service entrance conductors"
With the shed disconnect mounted on the outside of the house, and the conductors not entering the building, IMO they do not need to be grouped.
After thinking about it, I do not think he is required to install a disconnect at all. But if that is what the PoCo wants, that is what they will get.
The disconnect would be a 2nd service. You only need 3 wires and the neutral bar should be bonded to the metal enclosure. The grounds should be connected to the neutral bar, or to a ground bar attached to the steel enclosure. After the new disconnect you will need a 4 wire feeder.
#16
09-20-15, 02:14 PM
Group Moderator
The D/C is needed as the run is too far for unfused conductors.
If the poco ran it....it wouldn't need to be fused but because the wiring is out of their hands...CYA comes into play here.
If the poco ran it....it wouldn't need to be fused but because the wiring is out of their hands...CYA comes into play here.
#17
09-20-15, 02:37 PM
Tolyn Ironhand
On your job you installed another service that was serving the same building. That is why you would need the "extra" disconnect and they would need to be grouped. He is installing a 2nd service but it does not serve that building.
According to 230.70:
"Means shall be provided to disconnect all conductors in a building or other structure from the service entrance conductors"
With the shed disconnect mounted on the outside of the house, and the conductors not entering the building, IMO they do not need to be grouped.
After thinking about it, I do not think he is required to install a disconnect at all. But if that is what the PoCo wants, that is what they will get.
The disconnect would be a 2nd service. You only need 3 wires and the neutral bar should be bonded to the metal enclosure. The grounds should be connected to the neutral bar, or to a ground bar attached to the steel enclosure. After the new disconnect you will need a 4 wire feeder.
On your job you installed another service that was serving the same building. That is why you would need the "extra" disconnect and they would need to be grouped. He is installing a 2nd service but it does not serve that building.
According to 230.70:
"Means shall be provided to disconnect all conductors in a building or other structure from the service entrance conductors"
With the shed disconnect mounted on the outside of the house, and the conductors not entering the building, IMO they do not need to be grouped.
After thinking about it, I do not think he is required to install a disconnect at all. But if that is what the PoCo wants, that is what they will get.
The disconnect would be a 2nd service. You only need 3 wires and the neutral bar should be bonded to the metal enclosure. The grounds should be connected to the neutral bar, or to a ground bar attached to the steel enclosure. After the new disconnect you will need a 4 wire feeder.
run three wires from meter socket to d/c and bond the neutral bar to d/c and install grounding bar. then run my 4 wires form d/c to sub panel and separate ground and neutral in sub panel. right?!?!?
#18
09-20-15, 06:38 PM
Group Moderator
run three wires from meter socket to d/c and bond the neutral bar to d/c and install grounding bar. then run my 4 wires form d/c to sub panel and separate ground and neutral in sub panel. right?!?!?
Last edited by ray2047; 09-20-15 at 07:26 PM. Reason: and>any
