Code question on breaker handle ties
#1
09-24-15, 10:02 AM
Code question on breaker handle ties
Per previous posts I'm doing a service + Panel upgrade to 200 amp Cutler Hammer. I'm trying to figure out the best mix of breakers. The quad breakers come with ties on the middle 2 breakers for 220 volt circuit I'm thinking for baseboard, oven, dryer etc. I can purchase outside handle ties for these quads to join say 2 15's. Are there restrictions on what I can use these joined outside breakers for?
Example would be:
Is it okay for kitchen plugs where you've got a 14/3 run with a 15 top and separate 15 amp bottom plug?
How about for a baseboard heater at 220 volt?
Thanks!
Example would be:
Is it okay for kitchen plugs where you've got a 14/3 run with a 15 top and separate 15 amp bottom plug?
How about for a baseboard heater at 220 volt?
Thanks!
#2
09-24-15, 10:35 AM
Group Moderator
Your currently doing a panel upgrade and you need quad breakers already ?
Do you have that many circuits ?
I've never been a big fan of quad breakers. They are ok when necessary but should not be necessary in a new panel installation. I don't believe there is any restrictions on what devices they can supply power to. You also need to consult the diagram that comes with the panel as the quads can only be used in certain locations. There is usually also a limit to the amount of tandem/quad breakers can be used.
Do you have that many circuits ?
I've never been a big fan of quad breakers. They are ok when necessary but should not be necessary in a new panel installation. I don't believe there is any restrictions on what devices they can supply power to. You also need to consult the diagram that comes with the panel as the quads can only be used in certain locations. There is usually also a limit to the amount of tandem/quad breakers can be used.
#3
09-24-15, 10:53 AM
The only restriction I can think of is that true 240V devices (oven, etc) require the breaker to include a common trip mechanism; whereas multiwire circuits such as the kitchen receptacles only require handle ties. Quad breakers usually only have common trip on the inner pair, but some of them don't have common trip on either pair. The difference technically speaking is that common trip breakers will open both poles during a fault even if the handles are mechanically jammed "On". Handle tied breakers will only open both poles if both handles are able to move freely.
#5
09-24-15, 02:05 PM
The panel is a 40/80 panel so in theory I could use all quad breakers and be up to code (panel linked below).
I'm curious why you are against quad breakers. If the panel is rated to be full of them is there some kind of deficiency compared to full size? I was just thinking that saving space for later made sense. If I were to use all full size I'd be at 35 spaces with 5 spares but why not have 10 or 15 spares?
If I'm understanding you correctly anything true 240 (baseboard, oven, dryer) needs common trip?
What I don't understand about that is they sell 15 30 15 quads with the inner 30's pinned but not common trip. Does that mean I can't use it for a dryer?
15-30-15 non common trip.
Eaton Cutler-Hammer | Plug-In Duplex/Quad Replacement Breaker - 2-1P 15A & 1-2P 15A | Home Depot Canada
Panel
Schneider Electric - Square D | 200 Amp, 40 Spaces 80 Circuits Maximum QO QwikPak Panel Package with Breakers | Home Depot Canada
Thanks!
I'm curious why you are against quad breakers. If the panel is rated to be full of them is there some kind of deficiency compared to full size? I was just thinking that saving space for later made sense. If I were to use all full size I'd be at 35 spaces with 5 spares but why not have 10 or 15 spares?
If I'm understanding you correctly anything true 240 (baseboard, oven, dryer) needs common trip?
What I don't understand about that is they sell 15 30 15 quads with the inner 30's pinned but not common trip. Does that mean I can't use it for a dryer?
15-30-15 non common trip.
Eaton Cutler-Hammer | Plug-In Duplex/Quad Replacement Breaker - 2-1P 15A & 1-2P 15A | Home Depot Canada
Panel
Schneider Electric - Square D | 200 Amp, 40 Spaces 80 Circuits Maximum QO QwikPak Panel Package with Breakers | Home Depot Canada
Thanks!
