New panel wiring question

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  #1  
Old 10-03-15, 05:26 PM
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New panel wiring question

I had a 20amp line run today and when having it run realized I couldnt use tandem breakers in my panel. So we installed a small 6 break panel and ran from that. After my electrician left I was reading up on the sub panel and it didnt seem like he wired it quite right, so I just wanted to check and make sure I am right in changing what I saw. From the main panel we ran a 60amp breaker to the sub panel using #6 4 wire. Inside he had the two hots wired , then the neutral and ground going to the neutral bar with the screw installed. I read this isn't correct at various places (including a post here). So I went out and bought the ground bar, installed that and ran the grounds to that bar. Just wanted to double check this looks correct, added a picture below of what it looks like with the ground bar. Thanks for the help.

 
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  #2  
Old 10-03-15, 05:58 PM
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As long as you removed the bonding screw on the neutral bar it should be okay.
 
  #3  
Old 10-03-15, 05:59 PM
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Yeah I removed the bonding screw when I added the grounding bar, thanks!
 
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Old 10-03-15, 06:05 PM
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Good. I'd suggest a different electrician next time.
 
  #5  
Old 10-03-15, 06:07 PM
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I second Ray's suggestion on using a different "electrician".

It appears that the clown that wired this up did NOT use the proper clamp fittings when running the cable into the circuit breaker enclosure. Can you post another picture, this time from an angle to show if the cables have just been shoved through the knock-out hole or if a proper clamp is in place?
 
  #6  
Old 10-03-15, 06:11 PM
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There isnt a clamp, its coming through the joist beside the box. I put a gromet in to prevent rubbing, but I guess there isnt anything to prevent it from being pulled....
 
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Old 10-03-15, 06:14 PM
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There shouldn't be loose wires in the wall. It needs to be cable or individual wires in continuous conduit. Yes, if cable you need a cable clamp.
 
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Old 10-03-15, 06:23 PM
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I will see if I can find a clamp to tighten things up, thanks for the help!
 
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Old 10-03-15, 06:31 PM
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Wires will need to be removed to install clamp. You may want to try a push-in NM connector so the wall won't have to be opened. Hopefully enough cable can be pulled into the box so the connector can be installed and the box isn't against a stud.

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  #10  
Old 10-03-15, 06:48 PM
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There isn't any wall between the boxes where the cable is run, the main box is on the other side of the stud that the new box is secured to,all the cable is just running from the main box through one stud to the new box.
 
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Old 10-03-15, 09:26 PM
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You are going to need at least two connectors for the three cables.
 
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Old 10-03-15, 10:05 PM
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the main box is on the other side of the stud that the new box is secured to,all the cable is just running from the main box through one stud to the new box.
Then there should have been a nipple between the boxes passing through the stud and individual wires (THHN) used. In that case no NM connector needed because no NM. If the box is against the stud it will be difficult to install an NM connector unless the hole in the stud is over sized enough.
 
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Old 10-04-15, 07:21 AM
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Ok thanks for all the replies!
 
  #14  
Old 10-04-15, 02:32 PM
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That's a hack job if I've ever seen one. It looks safe enough after you added the grounding/bonding bar and isolated the neutral bar, but pushing 3 runs of #12 NMB thru one knockout without using a strain relief connector is shoddy work. Also not installing a strain relief for that #6 NMB is crappy too. I hope (for your sake if you've already paid him) that this doesn't have to be inspected. I also hope (for your sake if you have haven't already paid him) that it does have to be inspected......because it would fail a electrical inspection. Just a opinion
ps....You need to add some color to that white wire that's connected to that 2 pole 240V breaker.
A little red or black tape around it to identify it as a hot conductor.
 
  #15  
Old 10-05-15, 10:31 AM
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Thanks for the responses, I want to know what I need to do to get this panel up to snuff. I have two questions on how to do that. The first is how its wired, I just have one question on the grounding now that I put in a separate grounding bar and decoupled it from neutral in the sub panel.

For the one 25amp breaker we moved over from the main panel to take its 240v spot to run the sub panel, the two hots are run out of the sub panel but the ground is still on the main panel I believe, does this matter?

Second question is involving how he has the cables run from the main to sub panel, I took some extra pictures and was wondering what I need to do to fix this. One note, is that the 3 yellow shrouded lines is actually 1 run of 12/2 and then the 2 individual lines going to the 25amp breaker in the sub panel, he just put extra shroud over those two individual lines.

Panels

Sub Panel side

Main Panel Side
 
  #16  
Old 10-05-15, 11:10 AM
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Crappy workmanship for sure. Best solution would be to pull the sub out, pull the cables back, drill that stud out larger, and install conduit nipples (or one larger ~2") nipple between the panels. The nipples need 4 lock nuts (2 per panel), and a plastic bushing on each side.

Do you still have time to stop payment on that check?
 
  #17  
Old 10-05-15, 11:22 AM
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So one large conduit nipple for each hole, that would pass all the way through the wood stud then secure to each panel using a lock nut. Then a bushing on each side, but no clamp correct?

Also any advice on my first question about the ground wire that was originally on the 25amp breaker that was moved? Thanks!!!!
 
  #18  
Old 10-05-15, 11:28 AM
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You could do two 1/2" nipples to match the holes already drilled in the panels. If you have a hole saw or punch set to drill the panels you could instead run one larger conduit that covers both holes. Correct, it passes through the stud and creates an enclosed raceway between the panels. No clamps required in that case.

The ground wire can remain where it is.
 
  #19  
Old 10-05-15, 11:31 AM
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Thank you very much for the help =)
 
  #20  
Old 10-05-15, 02:24 PM
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The nipples need 4 lock nuts (2 per panel), and a plastic bushing on each side.
Only if you use the metallic nipple as a bonding means in addition to a raceway. Use a plastic nipple with locknuts only inside the enclosures, plastic bushings on the ends and run an appropriately sized bonding conductor with the supply conductors.
 
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