Install Ceiling Fan

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  #1  
Old 04-07-01, 01:48 PM
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Question Help on ceiling fixture

Have a outlet on wall controlled by switch. What is the trick to pull the wire so I can run the wire into the attic so I can install a ceiling fan. It doesn't seem to be a straight drop. Help.

[Edited by als12 on 04-07-01 at 05:02]
 
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  #2  
Old 04-07-01, 02:01 PM
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I take it that you want the following....

1. to convert the existing switched to an always on state and use the existing switch to switch the fan/light combo ?

2. And if so , do you want to control the fan and light separately ? (would require 2 switches with the existing single switch changed fromn a single box to a double box) assuming that it is a fan & light combo ?

Do you want wiring instructions, or just want to knwo how to fish the wire cable ?

If you want wiring instructions , I will need to know the following...

1. Is only half of the outlet switched or both halfs switched ?

2. At the existing switched oulet plug, how many wire cables are entering the box ? Each cable should have a black/white/bare. If there is a red wire tell me.

3. At the switch location, how many wire cables are entering that box ? each wire cable again will have a black/white/bare. If there is a red wire tell me. Tell me the color of the wires that are actually connected to the switch.

4. Is there only 1 switch that controls that outlet plug ?

 
  #3  
Old 04-07-01, 02:09 PM
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Question

I want know how to fish the wire. The outlet box on the wall has two sets of wires, one is striclty black and white with ground, the other is black, white, red and ground. The switch has two sets as well, same type of wiring as outlet. I assume the cable with the red wire is runnung from the wall outlet to the switch and I probable would simply disconnect at the switch and outlet, the outlet was cut due to the split of outlets ( 1 switched the other constant) so I probably need to just replace the outlet and wire to the black, white and ground. However, the switch is another story. I assume I can use the black, white, and ground for my power source, I simply need to run the wire from the switch to the new box I installed in the ceiling. How do I fish the wire in the wall into the switch box or basically how do I get the wire from the switch to the ceiling fixture?
 
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Old 04-07-01, 02:15 PM
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the hardest part of what you want will be getting the wire from A to B
if this is fan only, no light, it could be controlled via the pullchains and utilize a feed in the attic.
 
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Old 04-07-01, 02:20 PM
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Fan has light as well, and would like it controlled by the switch as this will be replacing the light we had in the room. switched outlets are great if you never plan on moving the room around and leaving the lamp where the outlet is.
 
  #6  
Old 04-07-01, 03:19 PM
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The cable at the switch box that has only a black/white/bare is your source of power, the other cable black/red/white/bare that goes between the switch box and the outlet plug box provides a switched and unswitched power source. The other cable at the plug continues an unswitched power onto the rest of the circuit. I think you can confirm that if you look at the existing plug, the joining tab on the brass side is broken and a red is on one brass screw and the black is on the other brass screw. white being on the silver color screw. You will have to replace the existing plug with a new plug -no broken tabs.
cap off the red wire at both the switch and the plug. At the plug white to white and silver color screw of plug. Black to black and brass color screw of plug. bares to box and grounding screw of plug.

New cable from switch to ceiling fixture.
AT switch circuit black to black going to plug and one screw of switch. All white together. black going to ceiling fixture to other screw of switch. bare grounded to box.

To fish the wire. hopefully it is unobstructed from the top plate of the wall studs down to the switch. From the attic you will have to locate the exact location of the top of wall stud and directly above the switch location. Drill a hole big enough to fish the wire cable down into the wall to the switch..

Please confirm that at the plug only one hot is being continued to the other wire cable, and the other hot is only going to half of the plug before starting.
 
  #7  
Old 04-07-01, 03:39 PM
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new twist to the puzzle. I just noticed that there are 3 sets of wires coming in the box. one set ( red,black,white, ground) other two sets(black,white,ground). I think that power is either coming into the outlet box and then feeding to the switch via the cable with red in it or power is coming in the switch. if so, where is the second set of wires going from the outlet? I am assuming the third set is going to another circuit. also, why is there 2 sets of wires in the switch box if the set with the red in it is the power as well. I am getting very confused. I tried sending a fish tape up from the switch box, seems like something is blocking it. I also thought of sending wire into the outlet box to the ceiling and using the red wire for switch that is already existing however, my concern is that there is already 3 sets of wires coming into the box, will one more be to many? this is a project i am in the middle of so I will be checking periodically so I can finish it today. By the way, if I haven't mentioned it yet, Thank you very much for your efforts you have put into my little problem, all is appreciated.
 
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Old 04-07-01, 04:15 PM
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Ok don't start anything yet and don't fish any wires to the ceiling yet. Don't worry we will figure this all out but I will need some further info.

1. At the switch you said you have 2 wire cables entering this box, 1 cable has a black/white/bare , and the other cable has a black/red/white/bare. I need to know how these are currently wired. We will call the black/white/bare cable as cable 1 at switch. We will call the black/red/white/bare cable as cable 2 at switch.
Tell me the wiring, for example black from cable 1 is connected to what wire from cable 2 or is black only connected to one screw of switch. If 2 things are connected to black of cable 1 then tell me. Stick with the reference I gave for cable 1 and cable 2, we will stay with identification thruout this.

2. At outlet plug , you have 3 cables , I assume 2 cables are black/white/bare, and 1 cable is black/red/white/bare.
I don'e need to know about the bare they should only be grounded to the box and grounding screw of plug.
We will call the black/red/white/bare cable as being cable 2 at outlet plug, the other 2 cables that have black/white/bare call them cable 1 and cable 3 at outlet plug. But label them for reference purposes. Tell me at the outket plug what wire is connected to what and what wire from what cable is connected to the plug. If only 1/2 of the plug is switched , I brass color screw side of the plug should have the joining tab broken, the silver color side should have the joining tab intact -confirm.

A little extra time now could save you time later, and having it right the first time.

 
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Old 04-07-01, 04:17 PM
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Oh one more thing there is currently only one switch controlling half of the outlet - correct ?

I usually don't like guessing at electrical things that is why I ask a lot to be certain I how how it is wired to be certain I gave you the correct instructions.

I may have to out soon , not sure , so if I don't get back to your post immediately , don't worry I will. Be certain before you start diconnecting wires and rewiring it. Because once you disconnect everything, we won't know how it was before which helps.

[Edited by dkerr on 04-07-01 at 07:25]
 
  #10  
Old 04-07-01, 06:25 PM
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yes the switch is only controlling half the outlet. I have traced the wires to find out where each one goes and were the power is due to my error of already tearing into the project with out paying attention.. In the oulet cable 1 is providing the power and is tied into cables 2 and 3. Cable 3 is going to the light in the garage, cable 2 is providing power to the switch and back to the second half of the outlet via the red wire. from the switch power is coming from cable 2 going out cable cable 1 to the hall light switch. My question is, do i have to cut the drywall above the switch in order to access what ever is blocking the fish tape to run the wire from the switch to the ceilinng fixture or is there a easier way to do it, like some kind of trick ( magic ).
 
  #11  
Old 04-07-01, 07:06 PM
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You have not yet answered all of dkerr's questions. Let me see if I can summarize the yet unanswered questions. I'll provide some examples of the type of answers we expect.

At the outlet:
(1) You can that cable 1 is "tied" to cables 2 and 3. This is ambiguous. Can you provide information about each of the wires in each of the cables. You can use the notation "1b" for the black wire in cable 1, etc. So you might say, for example, that 1b is connected to 2r and 3b, along with a pigtail to the upper brass screw on the outlet. Identify all the connections.
(2) You didn't identify any of the wires connected to the outlet. So you might tell us, e.g., that 1w is connected to the upper silver screw and 2w is connected to the lower silver screw, and that a pigtail off of the 1b to 2r to 3b connection is connected to the upper brass screw. Identify all connections.
(3) You need to look at the tabs on the brass screw side and the silver screw side of the outlet. These tabs connect the two screws. Are either or both of these tabs removed (i.e., broken out).

At the switch, provide the same sort of information as (1) and (2) above.

This sounds like a lot of information, but we need it. Precision and completeness of your description are very important. Make sure we know where every wire in every cable goes, and what's connected to every screw. As dkerr says, ignore the bare wires for now.
 
  #12  
Old 04-07-01, 07:14 PM
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I appreciate the detail of the wiring, but that is not my issue. My problem is running the wire from the switch to the ceiling fixture.As I stated in the previous post, there seems to be a obstruction blocking access for the fish tape to go through so I can pull the wire through. What does the input of what wire 1b have to do with that. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all the advice, but I am on a time issue, it's getting dark, and I have already figured out what wires I need to use and where they all go. Thanks again.
 
  #13  
Old 04-08-01, 05:30 AM
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If there is an obstruction in the wall , although others here may some other ideas, but I think you may have to locate the position of the wall where you incountered the obstrustion and open the drywall at that point to get thru it. You it is patched correctly no-one will ever know.
 
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Old 04-08-01, 07:59 AM
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How far is the fish tape getting up from the switch before being blocked? If you say 4 feet, I'm going to suggest you've hit the top plate. Have you gone up into the attic and drilled a hole through the top plate and tried to fish down? If so, how far down do you get there? Do measurements show that the upward obstruction is the same place as the downward obstruction? You may need to open up the wall as dkerr has suggested (measurements will tell you where), or you may just need a longer drill bit when drilling down from the attic.

Post back and let us know how it goes.

I think dkerr and I got thrown off track by all those other questions you were asking.
 
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Old 04-08-01, 09:55 AM
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well,
you can try to "fish-the-fish" method. a fish from either directions, one open hook, one string from hook down about a foot.
as John insinuated, go down if possible, find a way back up elsewhere.
all else fails, there is wiremould!

post us your results!
 
  #16  
Old 04-09-01, 11:51 AM
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If you just have a top plate you probably want to drill the hole in the top plate from the attic. If you truly have a fire block in the wall requiring the wall to be opened up then you might try Wirenuts idea and fish the wire into the crawl space and then go to the nearest closet and drill a hole in the floor, run flex up the corner of the closet wall into the attic. May solve your delemma.

Good Luck

Wg
 
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