Square D Homeline

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  #1  
Old 10-26-15, 06:54 PM
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Square D Homeline

I recently picked up a Square D by Schneider Electric HOM2040M200C Homeline 200-Amp 20-Space 40-Circuit Indoor Main Breaker Load Center with Cover
on Amazon to relocate and rewire house with 2 wire w/ ground (which still has the 1950s 2 wire cloth wiring) and ran into a problem that the breakers from the Murray Homeline will not fit into it all the way. Have picture showing for you guys to see and need help to understand what's going on with this of why it will not seat all the way down like length is millimeters too long.. Are there really different types of Homeline??

FYI I have this whole breaker box planned so if you ask about the empty spaces, they are taken in near future when I get them all transferred over.
 
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  #2  
Old 10-26-15, 09:10 PM
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A Square D panel requires Square D circuit breakers. You cannot use Murray circuit breakers in a Square D panel, even if they seem to fit.
 
  #3  
Old 10-26-15, 11:03 PM
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That is just totally messed up, thought there was a standard, but I guess there's much to learn about circuit breakers just like automotive. Can't put a part on a ford that belongs to a chevy unless you made modifications to it. I do noticed that there is a longer notch on bottom behind the hot connection with box on the circuit breaker of square D compared to Siemens and Murray. I just don't understand why Murray, Siemens, Eaton, and GE are all same when it comes to Homeline when this Square D homeline box is not for those homeline breakers. I have done my research online to confirm that I only saw 2 different types of breakers these days. Obviously there isn't enough information on the internet to tell you that there are more than 2 types.
 
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Old 10-26-15, 11:48 PM
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If your breakers are as old as the house and its wiring then they should be replaced too.
As an electrician I never use old breakers in a new panel upgrade.
 
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Old 10-27-15, 07:31 AM
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Some panels can accept other brands and types, but those types will be listed on the panel label if it is possible. There is not a general rule. The most common interchanges are Siemens and Murray because they are the same company, but even still they are not all compatible with each other. Square D is only compatible with their own breakers. From the Amazon product description:

The Square D Homeline 200 Amp 20-Space 40-Circuit Outdoor Convertible Main Breaker Load Center is UL listed for residential and commercial power distribution. This load center is built with a plated, aluminum bus bar that is tested and listed only for Homeline circuit breakers. Homeline load centers are designed for the value-minded contractors, remodelers, builders and homeowners. Homeline load centers are engineered for fast installation and wire savings.
(emphasis mine)
 
  #6  
Old 10-27-15, 07:43 AM
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If your breakers are as old as the house and its wiring then they should be replaced too.
As an electrician I never use old breakers in a new panel upgrade.


Pete
Pete, these are not old breakers. In case you didn't noticed, back in 1950s they did not have circuit breakers- It was fuse box. This breaker box been replaced sometimes in 2010 according to manufacturer date of box. I have replaced some breakers in past couple years and would like to reuse them.. Circuit breakers are expensive when on a budget and you only have 20 slots to work with which I have a Tankless water heater that takes up 6 slots, garage takes up 2 slots, dryer, and central air. Also to add 2 story worth of wiring.
 
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Old 10-27-15, 09:43 AM
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I have a Tankless water heater that takes up 6 slots
It only needs two if you use a subpanel at the TWH. Use GE panels. They have the least expensive panels and breakers.

If you have a TWH that requires 6 slots I wonder if your service is large enough to support it. Please give us the details.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 10-27-15 at 11:45 AM.
  #8  
Old 10-27-15, 11:29 AM
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...ran into a problem that the breakers from the Murray Homeline...
I am unaware of any company other than Square D using the name "Homeline" in reference to any circuit breaker panel.
 
  #9  
Old 10-27-15, 11:58 AM
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The design of the Homeline is similar across several brands but they are not interchangeable.
 
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Old 10-27-15, 12:10 PM
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It only needs two if you use a subpanel at the TWH. Use GE panels. They have the least expensive panels and breakers.

If you have a TWH that requires 6 slots I wonder if your service is large enough to support it. Please give us the details.
I have a Ecosmart 27KW (Which has 3x 9kw elements requiring 220v 40amp 8 gauge for each) TWH requiring 3x 40amp double pole and 200 amp service which I am currently on. The TWH peaks 112amps at maximum load according to their specifications which may not exceed in a one bath home anyhow.

And for as rest of this post. I managed to solve the problem.

Thank you all for the details :-)
 

Last edited by sschevy010; 10-27-15 at 12:34 PM.
  #11  
Old 10-27-15, 12:45 PM
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I have a Ecosmart 27KW (Which has 3x 9kw elements requiring 220v 40amp 8 gauge for each)
If you have other high use electric appliances like heat, electric dryer, electric stove, a Spa then you need to do a load calculation.
 
  #12  
Old 10-27-15, 03:08 PM
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If you have other high use electric appliances like heat, electric dryer, electric stove, a Spa then you need to do a load calculation.
Only appliance is large on electric besides TWH is Dryer and Central Air (which is only ran in Summer and very efficient). I prefer gas furnace and stove over electric for which is what I have at the moment. And as for dryer, will soon go natural gas switch when this one wears out which is approximately about 3 years or so since appliances are not what they used to be no matter how much maintenance care you do with them that are near 10 years old.
 
  #13  
Old 10-28-15, 05:09 AM
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Just curious, what are you using all the hot water for?
Geo
 
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Old 10-28-15, 09:09 AM
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I recently picked up a Square D by Schneider Electric HOM2040M200C Homeline 200-Amp 20-Space 40-Circuit Indoor Main Breaker Load Center with Cover
on Amazon to relocate and rewire house with 2 wire w/ ground (which still has the 1950s 2 wire cloth wiring) and ran into a problem that the breakers from the Murray Homeline will not fit into it all the way.
As has already been mentioned, Murray doesn't make a "Homeline" panel. "Homeline" is part of a registered trade name by Square D. You should have bought a Murray panel if you wanted to reuse your old breakers. Only Square D Homeline breakers are U.L. Listed to be used in the new Homeline panel. To use any other manufacturer's breakers, even if they do fit, is a code violation.
 
  #15  
Old 10-28-15, 06:42 PM
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As has already been mentioned, Murray doesn't make a "Homeline" panel. "Homeline" is part of a registered trade name by Square D. You should have bought a Murray panel if you wanted to reuse your old breakers. Only Square D Homeline breakers are U.L. Listed to be used in the new Homeline panel. To use any other manufacturer's breakers, even if they do fit, is a code violation.
Just a curious question: Exactly what causes code violation by putting breakers in Square D Homeline box that fits it regardless of name brand breakers?

To use any other manufacturer's breakers, even if they do fit, is a code violation
One more thing, Can you show me where this violates codes even if they do fit? What section # in the NEC??

Just curious, what are you using all the hot water for?
Geo
Who doesn't need hot water?
 
  #16  
Old 10-28-15, 08:26 PM
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The biggest issue is it violates 110.3B, items shall be used as listed and labeled. Homeline says only Homeline breakers, period.
 
  #17  
Old 10-29-15, 07:07 AM
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The big reason is that you don't know if it fits or not. The width and position of the bus fin and the tension on the stab clamp are different. The breaker may physically fit into the spot, but the connection to the bus does not meet spec. There could also be dissimilar and incompatible alloys. Both of these conditions causes corrosion, overheating and early failure. It also voids the warranty on the breakers and the panel.
 
  #18  
Old 10-29-15, 07:37 AM
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I saw this on a complete re-read of this thread.
I have done my research online to confirm that I only saw 2 different types of breakers these days.
Trust me, there are DOZENS, if not hundreds of different circuit breaker styles, most of which are not interchangeable.
 
  #19  
Old 10-29-15, 08:13 AM
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I have done my research online to confirm that I only saw 2 different types of breakers these days.
You didn't look very far. I can think of at least 4 different types of plug-on breakers that are currently produced without getting another cup of coffee and they are all brand specific and mostly not interchangeable. If we add bolt-in breakers, it could take a couple days to count them all.
 
  #20  
Old 10-29-15, 10:28 AM
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Cutler-Hammer classic tan, C-H BR line
Square D QO and Homeline
Westinghouse
GE
Siemens
Murray
 
  #21  
Old 10-29-15, 06:13 PM
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I was thinking of 4 types

1.) Cutler-Hammer CH series - only fit Cutler-Hammer CH series panels
2.) Square D QO series - only fit Square D QO series panels
3.) GE Type THQP - only fit SOME GE panels, not all GE panels
4.) Square D Homeline - only U.L. Listed to be used in Homeline panels

Only the Square D Homeline is the bus stab type breaker. None of the above 4 breakers will physically interchange.
 
  #22  
Old 10-30-15, 05:48 AM
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Compared to a lot of things, Homeline breakers are not that expensive. And my Homeline panel came with several of them.
 
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