Armored cable in crawl space

Reply

  #1  
Old 11-09-15, 03:32 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 14
Armored cable in crawl space

Hey Guys,

I need to run 12/2 to run power to a 20-amp GFI Outlet for the garage motor.

My question is the crawl space. It is considered a dry location.

I am considering running Armored Cable. Mostly because I am too lazy to buy an auger bit and drill through the floor joist. Theres like a million of them. But I dont want to compromise the integrity of the floor joist by drilling on "side" of the joist. Not sure if this is what it is called.

Would you recommend I just suck it up and drill through the stud and run the AC or Romex through there? No less than 2" from the edges of course.
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 11-09-15, 03:44 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 4,237
Need a lot more info, post makes no since to me.
Attached garage?
No powering in the garage now?
What's a "garage motor". Do you mean a garage door opener?
If so it does not need to be GFI protected. Only the outlets need to be.
What's the local building dept. have to say about running wires in conduit?
Unless this house is a mile long there's no way there's a "million" of them!
Might take a whole 1/2 hour to drill those holes with a paddle bit.
 
  #3  
Old 11-09-15, 04:07 PM
Tolyn Ironhand's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 12,284
I would drill the joists. Look into daredevel spade bits. They have a screw end that helps pull the bit through the wood. I use them all the time and work good even with a good cordless drill set to low speed.
 
  #4  
Old 11-09-15, 04:09 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 14
Hey. Thank for the speedy reply. Sorry I wrote the post before going to lunch.


Need a lot more info, post makes no since to me.
Attached garage? Yes. Attached Garage.
No powering in the garage now? There is power. But the city wants the garage door opener to be on it's own circuit with no other devices. So what I am doing is running 12/2 and installing a GFIC outlet within 3-feet of the motor which is why I need to run the cable directly to the breaker box. The garage door opener is not hard wired.
What's a "garage motor". Do you mean a garage door opener? Yes. Garage door opener.
If so it does not need to be GFI protected. Only the outlets need to be. Thanks!

What's the local building dept. have to say about running wires in conduit? No issues with running wires in conduit. If running Romex it needs to be per electrical codes through holes in the joists/studs.

Unless this house is a mile long there's no way there's a "million" of them!
Might take a whole 1/2 hour to drill those holes with a paddle bit. I was thinking of going with the paddle bit but I wanted to not damage the wood when it exits on the other end. I read that it is recommended that you drill with an auger bit to avoid damaging upon exit.
 
  #5  
Old 11-09-15, 04:14 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,052
You will need a GFCI since all receptacles need to be protected in a garage. Why 12-2? 14-2 on a 15 amp breaker should handle a GDO.
 
  #6  
Old 11-09-15, 04:17 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 14
You will need a GFCI since all receptacles need to be protected in a garage. Why 12-2? 14-2 on a 15 amp breaker should handle a GDO.

I like to compensate for my shortcomings in life. Which is why I am going with bigger cable.
 
  #7  
Old 11-09-15, 04:27 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 14
I would drill the joists. Look into daredevel spade bits. They have a screw end that helps pull the bit through the wood. I use them all the time and work good even with a good cordless drill set to low speed

Those daredevil spade bits look sexy. Going to pick them up at HD today! Thanks.
 
  #8  
Old 11-09-15, 04:34 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern NJ - USA
Posts: 46,177
Those bits are the best thing on the market now. I use them all the time. Be sure not to hit a nail as that will dull it quickly. When they're in good condition.... they will drill holes without causing a mess on exit.
 
  #9  
Old 11-09-15, 04:42 PM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 14,588
The GFI needs to be readily accessible. It cannot be on the ceiling.
 
  #10  
Old 11-09-15, 04:42 PM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: usa
Posts: 665
For added protection, I would place the romex in non-metallic conduit for the horizontal run in the crawl space. Clamp the conduit to the bottom of the floor joist. You will also have to run wire in the garage for the 24 vac used for manual control Good luck.
 
  #11  
Old 11-09-15, 04:54 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 14
The GFI needs to be readily accessible. It cannot be on the ceiling.

It wont be on the celing. It is on a beam that runs parallel to the motor. It is a high ceiling garage.
 
  #12  
Old 11-09-15, 04:57 PM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 14,588
How high will it be on the beam? You need to be able to reach it easily without a ladder.
 
  #13  
Old 11-09-15, 04:57 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 14
Clamp the conduit to the bottom of the floor joist.

Can you explain this part. Or show a pic. If I understand clearly, you want me to run some conduit inside the holes through the joists correct?
 
  #14  
Old 11-09-15, 05:00 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 14
How high will it be on the beam? You need to be able to reach it easily without a ladder.

Damn. 10ft. I need a ladder. Well the inspection report just says the outlet needs to be within 3-feet of the motor. My garage looks something like this:

Name:  Garage_Door_Openers_Installation.jpg
Views: 1391
Size:  21.8 KB
 
  #15  
Old 11-09-15, 05:10 PM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 14,588
Put the gfi on the wall and then feed the receptacle on the beam.
 
  #16  
Old 11-09-15, 05:23 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,052
Since the city requires a dedicated receptacle you may need to use a dead face GFCI on the wall. This is guess because having a dedicated receptacle isn't national code and we can only guess at what other non traditional requirements they may have. I'm guessing you can have only a receptacle at the GDO so you can't feed it from a receptacle on the wall. Hence a dead face GFCI no higher then 7'6".

Name:  ibcGetAttachment.jsp.jpeg
Views: 618
Size:  20.3 KB
 

Last edited by ray2047; 11-09-15 at 06:36 PM.
  #17  
Old 11-09-15, 05:27 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 14
Since the city requires a dedicated receptacle you may need to use a dead face GFCI on the wall. This is guess because having a dedicated receptacle isn't national code and we can only guess at what other non traditional requirements they may have. I'm guess ing you can have only a receptacle at the GDO so you can't feed it from a receptacle on the wall. Hence a dead face GFCI no higher then 7'6".
Put the gfi on the wall and then feed the receptacle on the beam.
You may be on to something here. I think I will have to do this then. Thanks!
 
  #18  
Old 11-10-15, 09:12 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: usa
Posts: 665
As I understand, the floor joists in the crawl space are perpendicular to the direction you want to run the power cable through the crawl space to the garage. Rather than drill holes in the joists, place the romex in non-metallic conduit and clamp the non-metallic conduit to the bottom of the floor joist using half moon clamps. You may have to drill holes in the joists at ends of the crawl space for the.r romex entry and exit. Hope this helps.
 
  #19  
Old 11-10-15, 09:35 AM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: US
Posts: 327
I'd also suggest 3 pretty evenly spaced straps per 10' section if you use PVC conduit.
 
  #20  
Old 11-10-15, 10:57 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 14
As I understand, the floor joists in the crawl space are perpendicular to the direction you want to run the power cable through the crawl space to the garage. Rather than drill holes in the joists, place the romex in non-metallic conduit and clamp the non-metallic conduit to the bottom of the floor joist using half moon clamps. You may have to drill holes in the joists at ends of the crawl space for the.r romex entry and exit. Hope this helps.
So if my feeble mind understands correctly, you recommend something like this...????

Name:  crude.jpg
Views: 1088
Size:  14.1 KB
 
  #21  
Old 11-10-15, 11:36 AM
ray2047's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,052
Yes that is what is being recommended. My opinion just as easy if not easier and of course cheaper to drill holes.

You could even drill hole and use ENT ("SMURF) with individual conductors, THWN but I'd just use NM-b and holes if it was dry and there wasn't a rodent problem..
 
  #22  
Old 11-10-15, 12:27 PM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 14,588
A furring strip could also be secured under the joists and the cable stapled to it.
 
  #23  
Old 11-10-15, 04:36 PM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 9,385
I need to run 12/2 to run power to a 20-amp GFI Outlet for the garage motor.
Why a 20 amp GFCI recetacle? Is this a local requirement? Under normal circumstances I can't think of a single reason to use a 20 amp duplex device in a house and you already said this is just for a door opener.
 
  #24  
Old 11-10-15, 04:51 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,052
Joe makes my point of early and raises another question. If this is truly dedicated and you use the dead face GFCI then it should be a 20 amp simplex receptacle not a duplex to make it truly dedicated.

Mod Note: if the breaker is reduced to 15 amps the receptacle would only need to be a 15 amp device.
 

Last edited by pcboss; 11-10-15 at 05:24 PM. Reason: added 20 amp, note
  #25  
Old 11-10-15, 11:22 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 14
Joe makes my point of early and raises another question. If this is truly dedicated and you use the dead face GFCI then it should be a 20 amp simplex receptacle not a duplex to make it truly dedicated.

Mod Note: if the breaker is reduced to 15 amps the receptacle would only need to be a 15 amp device.
Thanks guys. The reason I am running 12/2 was because the city code wants a 20-amp dedicated circuit with gfci outlet for the laundry as well. Since I had all of this extra 12/2 laying around. Might as well. It doesn't need to be a 20-amp.

So I am doing this... 15-amp breaker, 15-amp dead face gfci, 15-amp simplex on the 12/2. This should work no?

For the garage door opener the notice said:

"Maintain (Provide) Separate Circuity. [C.E.C. 220.18(A)]"
A-1 No other devices on this circuit
A-2 Label Circuit At Panel.
 
  #26  
Old 11-11-15, 06:32 AM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 14,588
That would work. .
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes