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Wiring small recessed 3" lights with conduit - limit room for daisy chaining

Wiring small recessed 3" lights with conduit - limit room for daisy chaining

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  #1  
Old 12-06-15, 09:38 AM
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Wiring small recessed 3" lights with conduit - limit room for daisy chaining

Hi,

I am planning to install a couple of 3" recessed lights in a master bedroom.
Lithonia-LK3GMW-3-Inch-Recessed-Gimbal
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In my area I need to use flex conduit. My plan was to daisy chain the lights. However, I do think that this might no be possible. If I attach two flex conduits to the box at the light fixture I am afraid that I can't fit the assembly with the two flex conduits attached to it through the hole.

Has anyone experience with this? Any tricks I can look into?
 

Last edited by PJmax; 12-06-15 at 09:52 AM. Reason: added light pic
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  #2  
Old 12-06-15, 09:47 AM
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If you are installing the lights into an existing ceiling.... you can use a separate junction box at every light and push the box back into the ceiling. The junction boxes are still accessible for service.
 
  #3  
Old 12-06-15, 10:22 AM
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I would need to pick a box that fits through hole, something like this?
1-1/4" Deep Handy Utility Box

I might end up with the same problem. I would need to attach the conduit before putting the box up. I am not sure if I can stuff the box with whips up there.
 
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Old 12-06-15, 11:32 AM
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I'm not sure why a problem with stuffing the boxes.
You would have a junction box in the ceiling with 3 flex lines:
- Source Power
- Power to next light
- Flex line to subject light

You would only have the one flex cable at the light you are installing.
 
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Old 12-06-15, 11:35 AM
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I think it would be easier to just daisy chain the flex to each fixture and use 90 degree connectors on each side of the fixtures junction box.
 
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Old 12-06-15, 11:56 AM
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It's very difficult to get two cables in those dinky junction boxes. Not only that.... the weight of two cables will make it hard to keep that light up.

I have a hard time with those fixtures. They take a lot of patience to install.

You may need to use a deep handy box (2-1/2") for your junction.
 
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Old 12-06-15, 12:21 PM
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I found a 3.125" hole template in the packaging and tried to simulate how I would get the light up there. Frankly, it is a mystery to me how even with just one conduit (even with 90 degree) would fit through the hole.
 
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Old 12-06-15, 12:35 PM
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So maybe opt for a 4" fixture instead.
 
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Old 12-07-15, 08:34 AM
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Those fixtures really aren't intended to be used with conduit, at best you might use AC or MC in a commercial application, but the intention is really to use #14 NM cable. You could potentially use larger cans or the new work 3" cans that can affix securely to the framing above, but you will need to do some drywall work.
 
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Old 02-06-16, 09:39 AM
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I took a break from this project. Meanwhile I cam across LED retrofit products like this:
Robot Check


Some are even ultra-thin which would make the installation easy, no need to worry about what is above the ceiling when drilling holes (other than joists).
Robot Check


Would have a huge advantage not requiring the can and 110V conduit wiring. Granted, the products are new brands. Possibly not UL rated. Then again I am not sure if the DC light needs to be. I do not feel comfortable having the transformers (and 110V wire) in the ceiling. However, I figured if I get a good centralized transformer this might be an option.

Has anyone looked at products like this?
 
  #11  
Old 02-06-16, 07:28 PM
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Did you read the Q&As on both fixtures? The first one is not UL Listed and requires a recessed can to be mounted from. I doubt the second fixture is UL Listed either, but that question wasn't asked. Both lights are 6000 K, would you really want lights so white that they are almost blue? The first one cannot be dimmed. I think I'd bypass both of these and look at domestic manufacturers if this were my project.
 
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Old 02-07-16, 08:55 AM
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The fist one states in the product description: "no recessed housing required". There are two order options: one is 6000K and one is 3000K. The first one also states "smooth dimming experience, compatible with most incandescent dimmer switches". So, I have to assume dimming works. Not sure why it wouldn't along as the driver can.

It bothers me a bit as well that the units are an unknown brand and not UL listed. Then again most US brands source form China supplier just like this. I don't even know whether such 12V lights require UL listing. I am sure the driver would require UL listing. However, I would buy a new centralized driver anyhow.

I wish that a traditional US brand would wake up and over something like this. The can concept really doesn't seem apply anymore to the LED-DC world. E.g. much less heat, DC technology,..
 
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Old 02-07-16, 09:09 AM
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I don't even know whether such 12V lights require UL listing.
All luminaries and lampholders are required to be listed. (410.6) Regardless of voltage.
 
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Old 02-07-16, 05:17 PM
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The fist one states in the product description: "no recessed housing required".
Read the second Question and Answer.

Q: Do I need a separate junction box for each light. I ordered 14 of these and my electrician is saying I need a junction box for each one?

A: You need a remodel recess can that has a junction box attached to it for each unit.
If you install without a recess housing, where and how do you mount the driver?

This is supposedly a dimmable LED unit. I'd also be concerned that they are saying most incandescent dimming controls will dim it.

Constant current driver included, smooth dimming experience, compatible with most incandescent dimmer switches
 
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Old 02-08-16, 06:11 AM
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I was planning to get one central driver like this for all lights:
Robot Check

The dimmability is really a feature of the driver. A good driver will be dimmable.

However, the issue might be here that LED disc still would need to be UL listed.
 
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Old 02-08-16, 06:36 AM
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You may possibly be able to use MC cable and use 3/8" duplex connectors, use UL listed products.
 
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Old 04-10-16, 10:19 AM
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I think I am going back to plan A and going to use Lithonia-LK3GMW-3-Inch-Recessed-Gimbal.
But instead of daisy chaining I will need to wire a star. Therefore, I will need to install a retrofit junction box in the ceiling for the star to terminate.

I am thinking to have 6 lights
How many flex conduits can I attached to this central junction box? Are there code limitations aside of the physical limitations?

I do think that I need to attach the conduits to the retrofit box while the box is outside of the ceiling.
Therefore, I believe I can only use the knockout on top of the junction box.
 
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Old 04-10-16, 10:32 AM
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The code limitations are on the amount of wire fill inside the box.

If I remember correctly you didn't have access above the ceiling which would limit you to a small junction that could not handle six cables and the feed.
 
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Old 04-10-16, 12:54 PM
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I was thinking that I need to cut an opening for a box and install a faceplate. Not pretty, but probably what I have to do. Unless, code allows me to put small boxes into the ceiling. But that might not even work, stuffing even a small box with conduit attached through a small 3" hole might be difficult.
 
  #20  
Old 04-17-16, 06:10 PM
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I think I found a solution, but need some advice on getting the right part.
I found this duplex connector with a right angle:
Bridgeport 830-DC2 90 Degree Duplex Connector - Crescent Electric Supply Company
(I might be actually OK with a straight duplex as well)

My questions as I am not familiar with flex conduit wiring (other when I got a preassembled whip):
1.) what is the commonly used, type of flex conduit that the local store will carry? I want o make sure to order the right duplex
2.) Does the mantel of the flex conduit count as a ground? Therefore, I would only need two wires?
3.) It looks like I can get flex with wires inside. Is this generally a good idea?



-
 
  #21  
Old 04-17-16, 09:06 PM
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The flex requires a ground.

If you are doing your own wiring...... get MC cable. MC=metal clad. Comes with white, black and green ground.

This is solid wire
Southwire 250 ft. 14/2 Solid CU MC Lite Cable-68579201 - The Home Depot

This is stranded wire.
Southwire 250 ft. 14/2 Stranded MC Cable-55017701 - The Home Depot

I have those right angle connectors in that link. Some don't tighten down enough to use #14MC cable. You could use #12 but you are fighting for wiring room in those little junction boxes. Plus the additional weight of the #12 will be a hindrance. Although in that link it says 3/8" trade size which may be ok.
 
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Old 04-20-16, 07:27 PM
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Old 04-20-16, 07:39 PM
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Yes that is correct for a 15 amp circuit if local code permits metallic cable in lieu of conduit.
 
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Old 04-20-16, 11:35 PM
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That's also solid conductor wire.... not stranded. Both will work.... stranded is easier to bend.
 
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Old 04-21-16, 06:03 AM
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Old 05-05-16, 05:26 AM
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I ended up changing to 4" lights. There is simply no way to install a 3" through the 3 1/8 whole with any kind of code complaint connector attached. They shouldn't list the 3" as a retrofit option.
 
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Old 05-05-16, 08:51 AM
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Thank you for letting you us know your solution.
 
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