Oven keeps popping the GFI
#1
12-19-15, 08:23 AM
Oven keeps popping the GFI
A couple of months ago, I had an electrician out to take out some wiring from a wall I removed in the living room and large bdrm. I then had him out again move light switches from one side of the doorway to the other (he had to put in a junction box in the attic) and add and remove outlets in the other bedroom and living room.
Cost was over $1,000. So, I rarely use my oven but now it seems, everytime I do, the GFI blows in one of the kitchen outlets and not the one closests to the oven. Along with that, my washer won't work when that happens which was also moved from the hallway into a very tiny bedroom with elec. done by the same guy.
I did call him out but just when he arrived, I found the GFI in the kitchen that when I reset it, everything came back on. Haven't used the oven since. Today, I went to use it and it keeps blowing the GFI and I can't get it to heat up let along bake cookies.
The last time, I also checked the washer and yup, it won't work without resetting that GFI outlet.
The electrician swears he put the oven on it's own breaker and everything should work.
Any ideas?
I haven't called him today bc I know he won't call me back till Monday. Checking with you guys first.
Cost was over $1,000. So, I rarely use my oven but now it seems, everytime I do, the GFI blows in one of the kitchen outlets and not the one closests to the oven. Along with that, my washer won't work when that happens which was also moved from the hallway into a very tiny bedroom with elec. done by the same guy.
I did call him out but just when he arrived, I found the GFI in the kitchen that when I reset it, everything came back on. Haven't used the oven since. Today, I went to use it and it keeps blowing the GFI and I can't get it to heat up let along bake cookies.
The last time, I also checked the washer and yup, it won't work without resetting that GFI outlet.
The electrician swears he put the oven on it's own breaker and everything should work.
Any ideas?
I haven't called him today bc I know he won't call me back till Monday. Checking with you guys first.
#2
12-19-15, 08:44 AM
Lots of missing information. Is this a stand alone oven or part of a stove? If stand alone is it gas or electric. If part of a a stove is the stove gas or electric? Is this an electric oven in a gas stove? Is the oven, if electric, 240 volts? Normally a 240 volt electric oven is not on a GFCI so it isn't really clear what you have.
#3
12-19-15, 08:45 AM
What type of open is it? If it's an electric oven it definitely has to be on a separate breaker because it requires 240 V instead of 120 V. Assuming that's the case the others and that I can think would be happening is that one leg of the 240 V to the oven is somehow connected through a GFCI breaker or outlet. Sounds like he definitely screwed something up somehow and he should be repairing it for you!
On the other hand if it's a gas oven it only requires 120 V and he may have not actually put it on its own breaker. Not the end of the world and certainly easier to troubleshoot and correct.
On the other hand if it's a gas oven it only requires 120 V and he may have not actually put it on its own breaker. Not the end of the world and certainly easier to troubleshoot and correct.
#4
12-19-15, 09:02 AM
geeze, of course you need to know - it's a gas oven with electric ignition. It ignites but then blows.
I put in a call to him.
I've had this oven for maybe 4 yrs, bought used, lived here for more than 23 yrs and had gas oven that came with house and it never blew a fuse till this guy rewired.
Thank you,
I put in a call to him.
I've had this oven for maybe 4 yrs, bought used, lived here for more than 23 yrs and had gas oven that came with house and it never blew a fuse till this guy rewired.
Thank you,
#5
12-19-15, 09:35 AM
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I'm assuming this is a Free Standing Gas Range with igniters, 120V.
It sure doesn't sound like it's on a dedicated circuit.
Unplug the oven, plug a lamp into the receptacle. Hit the test button on the GFCI and see if lamp goes out.
Also, when does the GFCI trip, after setting a temperature and pressing start?
If the oven is GFCI protected, the electrician might determine there's a fault in the oven, or that the oven should not be GFCI protected due to nuisance trips.
Edit: I read your post after submitting mine. The fact that it trips when igniters switch on is even more reason to eliminate the GFCI.
It sure doesn't sound like it's on a dedicated circuit.
Unplug the oven, plug a lamp into the receptacle. Hit the test button on the GFCI and see if lamp goes out.
Also, when does the GFCI trip, after setting a temperature and pressing start?
If the oven is GFCI protected, the electrician might determine there's a fault in the oven, or that the oven should not be GFCI protected due to nuisance trips.
Edit: I read your post after submitting mine. The fact that it trips when igniters switch on is even more reason to eliminate the GFCI.
#6
12-19-15, 09:41 AM
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Along with that, my washer won't work when that happens which was also moved from the hallway into a very tiny bedroom with elec. done by the same guy.
#7
12-19-15, 11:13 AM
this guy is a licensed elec. worked for 7 yrs under another elec. then opened his own elec. business. I did not get references.
He said the washer is on a dedicated circuit. This is a free standing gas range.
So sorry, I just got off the phone and during the conversation with the elec. -- I remembered what happened and how this came about.
I moved in here. The previous owner did all the electrical and window instalation etc. He and his other mason friend built the house. He was a mason by trade. He used "used" elec. wire/windows (single pane, no screens), and some of the outlets were not grounded in the living room and kitchen. why? no idea. There were very few outlets throughout the house. House is approx. 37 yo now.
If I had the toaster on and tried to use the microwave, a breaker in the basement would ALWAYS blow. I complained to an electrician friend at the time and he came in and put more outlets in the kitchen. Wired GFI's in (where there were none) etc. He and fam. moved several states away, not available anymore.
No more blown breakers. No more problems. This current electrician said it could be the GFI (I can replace it myself) or it can be a fault in the gas range (ohhhh, the money, bummer). He said to try a new GFI orrr, in our conversation, I suggested I can put a regular outlet there and not have it be a GFI.
So, I think that's what I will do is put a new outlet there (not a GFI) as the lamp I plugged into the oven outlet has two bulbs in it, one 75 watt and one 40 watt and both are on and it has not blown the GFI.
This elec. said a oven should not be wired into the load side of the GFI. I have no idea what that means but he stated it 'might' be a real headache trying to rewire the outlets. There is no money here. I am laid-off and it's only me with my animals to feed, I'm struggling to say the least.
He kinda referenced the worst might happen if I do a regular outlet would be a breaker in the basement, like before, would blow.
He said the washer is on a dedicated circuit. This is a free standing gas range.
So sorry, I just got off the phone and during the conversation with the elec. -- I remembered what happened and how this came about.
I moved in here. The previous owner did all the electrical and window instalation etc. He and his other mason friend built the house. He was a mason by trade. He used "used" elec. wire/windows (single pane, no screens), and some of the outlets were not grounded in the living room and kitchen. why? no idea. There were very few outlets throughout the house. House is approx. 37 yo now.
If I had the toaster on and tried to use the microwave, a breaker in the basement would ALWAYS blow. I complained to an electrician friend at the time and he came in and put more outlets in the kitchen. Wired GFI's in (where there were none) etc. He and fam. moved several states away, not available anymore.
No more blown breakers. No more problems. This current electrician said it could be the GFI (I can replace it myself) or it can be a fault in the gas range (ohhhh, the money, bummer). He said to try a new GFI orrr, in our conversation, I suggested I can put a regular outlet there and not have it be a GFI.
So, I think that's what I will do is put a new outlet there (not a GFI) as the lamp I plugged into the oven outlet has two bulbs in it, one 75 watt and one 40 watt and both are on and it has not blown the GFI.
This elec. said a oven should not be wired into the load side of the GFI. I have no idea what that means but he stated it 'might' be a real headache trying to rewire the outlets. There is no money here. I am laid-off and it's only me with my animals to feed, I'm struggling to say the least.
He kinda referenced the worst might happen if I do a regular outlet would be a breaker in the basement, like before, would blow.
#8
12-19-15, 11:29 AM
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The washer and stove are on the same circuit. Not correct but not the end of the world. I've seen a lot worse. The stove draws a few amps max.
You are not required to connect your gas stove to a GFI receptacle or circuit. The newest code version may change that but it doesn't apply here. I've never installed a GFI receptacle for a stove or a fridge.
The fact that the GFI trips does indicate that you have leakage inside your stove. It could be something leaking hot to ground or a shorted neutral to ground. It could be located but would require opening the stove and checking with an ohmmeter. If you want to pursue that... let me know.
You are not required to connect your gas stove to a GFI receptacle or circuit. The newest code version may change that but it doesn't apply here. I've never installed a GFI receptacle for a stove or a fridge.
The fact that the GFI trips does indicate that you have leakage inside your stove. It could be something leaking hot to ground or a shorted neutral to ground. It could be located but would require opening the stove and checking with an ohmmeter. If you want to pursue that... let me know.
Last edited by PJmax; 12-19-15 at 11:53 AM. Reason: typo
#9
12-19-15, 12:15 PM
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So, I think that's what I will do is put a new outlet there (not a GFI) as the lamp I plugged into
Are you saying you will remove the GFCI that's feeding the range?
Or simply change the receptacle behind the range?
Changing the receptacle behind the range will do nothing.
Eliminating the GFCI that feeds range receptacle is not recommended.
You must keep the GFCI and change the range receptacle wiring to where it's not being fed by the GFCI.
This can be a little complicated but you can get help here.
#10
12-19-15, 12:24 PM
Thanks Pete. I want to be sure you are clear that the stove is not directly plugged into a GFI but a normal outlet. The GFI on the other side of the kitchen sink from the stove blows every time I try to use my oven.
So, after talking with the elec. today, I think I will replace that GFI with a normal outlet.
Yes, I do want to pursue the leak in the oven. I have an ohmmeter but do not know how to use it.
So, after talking with the elec. today, I think I will replace that GFI with a normal outlet.
Yes, I do want to pursue the leak in the oven. I have an ohmmeter but do not know how to use it.
#11
12-19-15, 12:28 PM
Thanks Brian, I'm afraid of rewiring anything. Can handle replacing outlets but have to hold it exactly like the one I'm replacing and take a pic so as to wire it the same way. There was never any GFI's in the kitchen and now I have at least 3, maybe 4.
It's just me here.
It's just me here.
#12
12-19-15, 12:31 PM
Group Moderator
The problem is.... and what Brian was getting to..... is that if you replace the GFI receptacle with a regular receptacle..... what connected to it will no longer be protected ?
We know the stove and the washer. What else ?
If that is a countertop GFI receptacle then you could probably move the load wires to the line screw terminals on the GFI receptacle. You would still have that protected receptacle and everything beyond that would no longer be on the GFI.
We know the stove and the washer. What else ?
If that is a countertop GFI receptacle then you could probably move the load wires to the line screw terminals on the GFI receptacle. You would still have that protected receptacle and everything beyond that would no longer be on the GFI.
#13
12-19-15, 12:38 PM
Ooo...k, just the stove and washer that I know of on that GFI outlet. I do not know the difference between the load wire and the line screw terminals.
It is a countertop as it's located above the counter and below the cupboard.
It is a countertop as it's located above the counter and below the cupboard.
#14
12-19-15, 12:41 PM
Group Moderator
When you look at the back of a GFI receptacle.... there is a set of terminals marked LINE. This is where the power comes in.
Then there is a second set of terminals that's marked LOAD. This is the GFI protected output terminals.
You want to move the two wires from LOAD to LINE.
Then there is a second set of terminals that's marked LOAD. This is the GFI protected output terminals.
You want to move the two wires from LOAD to LINE.
#15
12-19-15, 01:01 PM
ok, but then there will be two wires, the incoming and the outgoing on each screw. Is that going to be ok?
Or, are there only 3 wires coming into the outlet? The ground, hot and neutral? and that's all I need worry about. I have not taken it apart yet but can right now.
Or, are there only 3 wires coming into the outlet? The ground, hot and neutral? and that's all I need worry about. I have not taken it apart yet but can right now.
#16
12-19-15, 01:07 PM
Group Moderator
There will be two wires for line and two wires for load. If you look at the picture you'll see a place for two wires on each screw. This is a solid connection.
#17
12-19-15, 01:08 PM
There are two white wires and two blacks and of course, a ground hook into this receptical. Whites are on the same side and blacks are on the opposite side, gd. is on the bottom. It's very tight.
#18
12-19-15, 01:17 PM
ok, will turn elec off and make sure I'm hooking into the line and not the load terminals. Before doing that, I tried to see if the load was on the top or bottom but had a very hard time as it's so tight but I do see where I can put another line into each screw.
My GFI looks like the load is on the top and line is the bottom ones and the ground is definitely on the bottom. Going to turn off the elec. now --
My GFI looks like the load is on the top and line is the bottom ones and the ground is definitely on the bottom. Going to turn off the elec. now --
#20
12-19-15, 01:42 PM
Well, can't thank everyone enough! Waiting for the oven to heat up but it's already past the time it took for the GFI to pop previously today.
Too late to bake cookies but will get hard at it tomorrow!
Thank You!
Too late to bake cookies but will get hard at it tomorrow!
Thank You!
#21
12-19-15, 03:18 PM
I tried to see if the load was on the top or bottom
#23
12-19-15, 07:49 PM
Sometimes GFCI is sensitive enough to trip when igniter sparks.
Igniter causes spark to ground (body if your oven) and depending on igniter design there may be enough current to jump through ground instead of going to neutral. GFCI trips when current flowing on hot side and line side is different (indicating current leakage).
This is probably what caused your problem.
If there are more non GFCI outlets near your kitchen counter, you should install more GFCI since by moving wires from load side to line side you removed GFCI protection on rest of the circuit.
Igniter causes spark to ground (body if your oven) and depending on igniter design there may be enough current to jump through ground instead of going to neutral. GFCI trips when current flowing on hot side and line side is different (indicating current leakage).
This is probably what caused your problem.
If there are more non GFCI outlets near your kitchen counter, you should install more GFCI since by moving wires from load side to line side you removed GFCI protection on rest of the circuit.
#24
12-19-15, 08:44 PM
Group Moderator
The OP is aware of what is on the now unprotected part of the circuit. It will be the washer and the stove. The GFI counter receptacle has been left in place.
#26
12-20-15, 08:25 PM
One Other thing does not work with a GFCI: a multiwire branch circuit.
