What cable is needed for dead end leg of 3 way lighting circuit?
#1
12-22-15, 11:14 AM
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What cable is needed for dead end leg of 3 way lighting circuit?
I want to rewire the switch for the hall/stair light - right now the power at the light with a regular single pole switch at the top of the stairs. I'd like to make it 3 way with a switch at the bottom. I presume I need to have 4 conductor cable from top to bottom to bring a neutral down, correct? (I was considering electronic switches along the likes of Lutron Maestros)
Problem is - no one around here in small town MN sells 12/4 or 12/2/2 cable. Can I run two cables of 12/2 to have my 4 conductors? Or is there no need to bring a neutral down and just use 12/3?
Problem is - no one around here in small town MN sells 12/4 or 12/2/2 cable. Can I run two cables of 12/2 to have my 4 conductors? Or is there no need to bring a neutral down and just use 12/3?
#2
12-22-15, 11:23 AM
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If you wire as in the diagram below you only need 3-conductor cable to meet code.
If you really need to use 4-conductor you can use ENT (AKA Smurf) and four wires. A plastic old work box can be drilled with a spade bit to take the connector.
If you really need to use 4-conductor you can use ENT (AKA Smurf) and four wires. A plastic old work box can be drilled with a spade bit to take the connector.
#3
12-22-15, 11:54 AM
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Or is there no need to bring a neutral down and just use 12/3?
Problem is - no one around here in small town MN sells 12/4 or 12/2/2 cable. Can I run two cables of 12/2 to have my 4 conductors?
#4
12-22-15, 12:38 PM
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Can you recommend a vendor for 4 conductor cable? I'm guessing I need only 50 ft of it in 12 gauge... Probably looking at $3/foot, huh?
I might be better off bringing in power from the basement to the bottom switch and eliminating the dead end.
I better double check our code requirement first. I know it has the AFCI breaker requirements, so I assumed about the neutrals.
I might be better off bringing in power from the basement to the bottom switch and eliminating the dead end.
I better double check our code requirement first. I know it has the AFCI breaker requirements, so I assumed about the neutrals.
#5
12-22-15, 12:48 PM
No, much less than that per foot but a quick search revealed it's only available online in 250' rolls. Home Depot has free shipping.
Southwire 250 ft. 12/2/2 NM-B Wire-55048455 - The Home Depot
Southwire 250 ft. 12/2/2 NM-B Wire-55048455 - The Home Depot
#6
12-22-15, 01:19 PM
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I did see that - but I have no need for the 250'. That's actually where I buy the rest of my wire, but it's 60 mi away.
Local building center actually sells by the foot 12/2 & 12/3, but they don't carry 12/4. And if I remember right - they charge $1.25/ft for 12/3 - which is why I was guesstimating $3 for something as uncommon as 12/4!
Local building center actually sells by the foot 12/2 & 12/3, but they don't carry 12/4. And if I remember right - they charge $1.25/ft for 12/3 - which is why I was guesstimating $3 for something as uncommon as 12/4!
#8
12-22-15, 01:51 PM
Note that 12/4 and 12/2/2 are different items. 12/4 has black, red, blue, white, bare (only one neutral possible). 12/2/2 has black, white, red, white/red stripe, bare (two neutrals possible, striped wire can be remarked hot if needed). HD will ship by UPS/FedEx to your home to save the 60 mile trip. The leftover 12/2/2 or 12/4 can be used anywhere 12/2 can be used -- future wiring projects.
You could do flex conduit and individual wires, but I really don't think that will be any cheaper or less work than the 12/2/2.
You could do flex conduit and individual wires, but I really don't think that will be any cheaper or less work than the 12/2/2.
#9
12-22-15, 01:57 PM
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Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see why you would need 4 conductors. The illustration that Ray provided shows the normal way of doing the installation and it only uses 12/3 which even provides a neutral in each box as required by code.
#11
12-22-15, 03:07 PM
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Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see why you would need 4 conductors. The illustration that Ray provided shows the normal way of doing the installation and it only uses 12/3 which even provides a neutral in each box as required by code.
The thought was - there is already an existing light at the top of the stairs with a switch beneath it. It sucks that there is no switch at the bottom of the stairs - the kids hate to go up in the dark. So I was thinking - two SPDT switches and a length of wire to bring a switch to the bottom of the stairs - and no more having to walk up the stairs in the dark. The power is upstairs, which would make this a "dead end", right?
I guess I could run a 12/2 wire from upstairs to the box at the bottom of the stairs, and then wire the rest of the circuit as ray2047's diagram, but it would probably use less cable to pull it from the basement.
Note that 12/4 and 12/2/2 are different items. 12/4 has black, red, blue, white, bare (only one neutral possible). 12/2/2 has black, white, red, white/red stripe, bare (two neutrals possible, striped wire can be remarked hot if needed).
#12
12-22-15, 03:11 PM
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I make it a point not to wire lighting circuits in #12 wiring. Takes up too much room in the box and is just not needed.
Is your wiring already started in #12..... if so..... you'll need to continue in #12.
Is your wiring already started in #12..... if so..... you'll need to continue in #12.
#13
12-22-15, 03:36 PM
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I guess I could run a 12/2 wire from upstairs to the box at the bottom of the stairs, and then wire the rest of the circuit as ray2047's diagram, but it would probably use less cable to pull it from the basement.
