Converting 3-Way Switched Outlets to Unswitched
#1
01-03-16, 12:21 PM
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Converting 3-Way Switched Outlets to Unswitched
Hey everyone, hoping you can help you with something. In our dining room we have 2 switches (3-way) that control the top half of 4 outlets in the room. The bottom half of the outlets are always on.
I'm looking to remove these switches (which are part of 2 and 3 gang boxes) and make all the outlets unswitched.
In the first switch (where the power is coming from) there are 2 white and one black wires. One of the white wires is where the power is originating from.
The second switch has the typical black, red and white wires that I normally see for a 3-way switch.
If I energize each separately, the black from #1 is the black in #2. The white from #1 is the white in #2.
The other white in #1 does not correspond with the red in #2. In fact, there is a red in box #1, but it's twisted together with a black wire that goes back up in the wall.
I've noticed if I pair up the hot wire in box #1 with another white wire (or all) in addition to doing the same on the other side, all outlets come on.
Is it as simple as twisting the 3 wires together on each side for the 3 way switches? Or is this not the proper way to do this?
I'm looking to remove these switches (which are part of 2 and 3 gang boxes) and make all the outlets unswitched.
In the first switch (where the power is coming from) there are 2 white and one black wires. One of the white wires is where the power is originating from.
The second switch has the typical black, red and white wires that I normally see for a 3-way switch.
If I energize each separately, the black from #1 is the black in #2. The white from #1 is the white in #2.
The other white in #1 does not correspond with the red in #2. In fact, there is a red in box #1, but it's twisted together with a black wire that goes back up in the wall.
I've noticed if I pair up the hot wire in box #1 with another white wire (or all) in addition to doing the same on the other side, all outlets come on.
Is it as simple as twisting the 3 wires together on each side for the 3 way switches? Or is this not the proper way to do this?
#2
01-03-16, 12:30 PM
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What will you do..... put the switches back in the boxes as dummies ?
What will you use for lighting to get into a dark room ?
Take the common wire off of each switch and connect to the same color traveler. Actually connecting all three will work too. Be sure to document your work in case you want to reverse it in the future.
What will you use for lighting to get into a dark room ?
Take the common wire off of each switch and connect to the same color traveler. Actually connecting all three will work too. Be sure to document your work in case you want to reverse it in the future.
#3
01-03-16, 12:35 PM
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This is part of a bigger project. There will be a switch for a new ceiling light that will essentially take the place of the switched outlets. Another project for another day. :-)
Right now, the old owners have a fan with 4 lights that is operated by pull chain.
Right now, the old owners have a fan with 4 lights that is operated by pull chain.
#4
01-03-16, 12:38 PM
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If I take the common wire off of each switch and connect to the same color traveler, all wires end up energized anyways. Is it ok to connect all 3 together under a cap?
There doesn't seem to be a common traveler between the two boxes. The red traveler from box #2 is connected to a black wire that just goes up into the wall.
There doesn't seem to be a common traveler between the two boxes. The red traveler from box #2 is connected to a black wire that just goes up into the wall.
#5
01-03-16, 12:42 PM
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Not common traveler..... common on the switch. EVERY three way switch has a dark colored screw. That is the common wire connection. It doesn't have to be the same color at both ends.
The other two wires are called the travelers and they should be the same colors at both ends.
The other two wires are called the travelers and they should be the same colors at both ends.
#6
01-03-16, 12:42 PM
If this is a "switch-loop" connection, there will be a 2-wire cable and a 3-wire cable at "switch 1" and a three-wire cable at "switch 2".
Please verify this; Thanks!!
Please verify this; Thanks!!
#7
01-03-16, 12:48 PM
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Unfortunately, that's not the case.. :-(
Switch #1
The common on switch #1 is White. You can see in the background a red wire capped off with a black. This is the red wire on switch #2. No idea why it is like that.
Switch #2
The common is red.
Switch #1
The common on switch #1 is White. You can see in the background a red wire capped off with a black. This is the red wire on switch #2. No idea why it is like that.
Switch #2
The common is red.
#8
01-03-16, 01:03 PM
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Box #1 has a 2 wire cable coming in one knockout (white and black) and a white coming in another, which is the wire that has the power.
Box #2 has the typical red, white and black 3 wire.
Does this help?
Box #2 has the typical red, white and black 3 wire.
Does this help?
#9
01-03-16, 01:07 PM
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That is not uncommon wiring. They have the three way set up as a switch loop using a three wire cable between switches.
#10
01-03-16, 01:10 PM
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Yeah, that sounds right. The black and white on each box match.
So what is the proper way to connect all this to keep the outlets energized?
So what is the proper way to connect all this to keep the outlets energized?
#11
01-03-16, 01:14 PM
Appears to be a switch-loop connection with the wrong color-code connections.
Perform this test; plug a 60 watt lamp to one of the receptacles ; with a test-lamp socket with a 60 watt lamp , test for voltage across the Black & White conductors of the 2-wire cable.
This sets the two 60-watt lamps in series across 120 volts , and the illuminated lamps will be similar in appearance because they are of equal wattage.
Perform this test; plug a 60 watt lamp to one of the receptacles ; with a test-lamp socket with a 60 watt lamp , test for voltage across the Black & White conductors of the 2-wire cable.
This sets the two 60-watt lamps in series across 120 volts , and the illuminated lamps will be similar in appearance because they are of equal wattage.
#12
01-03-16, 01:19 PM
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01-03-16, 01:21 PM
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#14
01-03-16, 01:25 PM
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Remove the white wire from switch one. Open the red and black splice in switch one location.
Connect the black and white together and cap off. Cap off the red wire. The switches will be dead.
Connect the black and white together and cap off. Cap off the red wire. The switches will be dead.
#15
01-03-16, 01:30 PM
If you are positively certain that the two-wire cable is the "Link" between the receptacles and the switches, then simply make a Black-to-White wire-nut connection at switch outlet box.
#16
01-03-16, 01:31 PM
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PJMax - That appears to have worked! All outlets on.
Do i just cap off all remaining wires individually then? This would include the Red, White and Black wires in each of the boxes.
Do i just cap off all remaining wires individually then? This would include the Red, White and Black wires in each of the boxes.
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01-03-16, 02:26 PM
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#18
01-03-16, 02:34 PM
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OP Jeff,
I would save this thread as a reference for future work on these boxes.
There are several ways to add ceiling lights to a room. For me, taking power from the switched receptacles and keeping the existing switches is one of the easiest and most functional.
I would save this thread as a reference for future work on these boxes.
There are several ways to add ceiling lights to a room. For me, taking power from the switched receptacles and keeping the existing switches is one of the easiest and most functional.
#19
01-03-16, 02:45 PM
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You can cap the red off at switch one. Like Brian mentioned keeping this thread is a great idea.
You know you have a dedicated three conductor cable from switch 1 to switch 2. At this point.... you don't have a confirmed feed/neutral to either location.
You know you have a dedicated three conductor cable from switch 1 to switch 2. At this point.... you don't have a confirmed feed/neutral to either location.
