Electrical rough-in question

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  #1  
Old 01-08-16, 06:35 AM
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Electrical rough-in question

I am roughing in electric for my basement renovation but someone else is going to hang the sheetrock.

Do I need to leave the receptacles off (and only run the wire and attach the gang boxes to the studs)? This way, the sheetrocker can cut around the boxes, and then when the rock is up I attach the receptacles?

I would prefer to attach all of the receptacles as well because it is so much easier on my back. I can wire the boxes while standing and only need to bend over to screw the box into the stud.

If I leave the receptacles until after the rock is done, then I need to bend and work at each box.

Having back problems right now so would like to avoid that.
 
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  #2  
Old 01-08-16, 07:25 AM
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We used to connect the wires to the receptacles & let them hang there. Then screw them to the box after the dry wall was hung.
 
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Old 01-08-16, 07:30 AM
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I don't know if this is a regional thing. A rough inspection here is:

- No devices attached
- The only wire connections are the grounds, with any required pigtails
- Of course the walls are open
 
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Old 01-08-16, 07:47 AM
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Well, this isnt going to be inspected. I am just trying to make it as easy as possible on my end.

I guess attaching the receptacles but not screwing them to the box would work. But with 12 wire and 3x2x2.5 boxes even squeezing them in after wont be easy. I planned to take the side off with the one screw, wire it up, attach it through the box to the stud with a screw, and then put the side back on.

Maybe I should just use bigger boxes? I never had to worry about this in the past because bending and working on my knees was never a problem like it is now.

If I attach the receptacle and let it hang, wont the sheetrocker hit it when cutting the holes? I'm assuming they hang the rock and then dremel around the box.
 
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Old 01-08-16, 07:47 AM
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Rough In

I don't know if this is a regional thing. A rough inspection here is:

- No devices attached
- The only wire connections are the grounds, with any required pigtails
- Of course the walls are open
Same here in our town. No devices installed at rough in.

Tuck the wires well back into the boxes out of the way of the drywall installer's Rotozip bit.
 
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Old 01-08-16, 07:51 AM
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I'd ask the folks that will hang the rock. If they are going to rotozip the boxes (most do now, I think) then having the outlets installed is a pain and risks damaging the devices and wiring. Plus they will get full of drywall dust. If they are going to mark and cut out openings for the boxes before hanging, then you can get by attaching the devices and letting them hang. But I haven't seen a pro do it this way in quite a while. It's slower and not as accurate.
 
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Old 01-08-16, 08:19 AM
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If I attach the receptacle and let it hang, wont the sheetrocker hit it when cutting the holes? I'm assuming they hang the rock and then dremel around the box.
I knew that I was an outdated auto mechanic & an outdated with tablets & smart phones. I guess that I must outdated, on dry wall too.
 
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Old 01-08-16, 08:21 AM
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For rough-in there should be no devices installed. It's impossible to get a tight fit of sheetrock around the box if a device is installed, and they will get all gooped up with dust and mud and paint during the wall finish. Grounds must be made up with wirenuts or crimps. Other pigtails can be made up if you want, but it is not required. You can go over the boxes with masking tape to keep them cleaner during rocking and painting, but also not necessary. Once the wall is finished, you'll want to go back with a utility knife and shopvac to clean out the excess mud from the interior of the boxes that has spilled over.
 
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Old 01-08-16, 08:26 AM
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I guess no receptacles is the way to go and I'll just suck it up.

3x2x2.5 are fine, right? They are a tight fit but should be ok? There will be a pigtail in each box.
 
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Old 01-08-16, 08:32 AM
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Plastic or metal? #12 or #14 wire? Do they have clamps built in the box?
 
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Old 01-08-16, 08:32 AM
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the boxes are metal , 12 awg romex
 
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Old 01-08-16, 08:39 AM
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But with 12 wire and 3x2x2.5 boxes even squeezing them in after wont be easy
Stuffing a box takes practice. Try preforming/bending the wires as much as possible. I usually start with the grounds (with crimp sleeve), then neutrals, hot wires last. Basically stuff the box neatly with only the wires coming out that you need for the device.

As far as the knees or back, I use a couple different height stools and get comfortable.
 
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Old 01-08-16, 08:45 AM
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crimp sleeve on the ground? I usually use a wire nut but in this job was planning on just twisting them together--using two sets of pliers so the twist is only at the end, and nice and tight.

Are the sleeves better?

Normally though, like on the black and white, I dont twist wires. I just wire nut them together nice and tight. Twisting before wirenutting seems overkill and is a real PIA if you ever need to undo it. Any thoughts on this practice?
 
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Old 01-08-16, 08:54 AM
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Code requires a mechanical fastener on the grounds. Wirenuts or barrel crimps are acceptable to meet this requirement. Twisting alone is not permitted.

Metal boxes at 2 x 2.5 x 3 = 15 cubic inches

Fill point calculation for a typical box is:
(2) device
(1) internal clamps
(1) all grounds
(4) #12 wires in and out
======
8 fill units * 2.25 = 18 cubic inches required minimum

The boxes are too small.
 
  #15  
Old 01-08-16, 09:04 AM
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ok, I will use 2x3.5x3.5 then, wirenutting the grounds and installing receptacles after the drywall is done.

Thanks for all the help.
 
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Old 01-08-16, 09:26 AM
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black and white, I dont twist wires. I just wire nut them together nice and tight. Twisting before wirenutting seems overkill
I don't pre-twist either, except for rare occasions. I was talking about pre-bending the wires that will be connected and stuffed, getting them to fit better in the box.
 
  #17  
Old 01-08-16, 09:58 AM
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There are a couple box packing techniques, you can sort of pre-fold an accordion shape into the wires so the device pushes back into the box more easily. There is also something like a spiral technique so you do a curving of the wires and make a half-turn of the entire device as you fold it back into the box.

Another reasonable approach for easy device setting is to make up all the solid wire connections before hand with the walls open and leave 6" pigtails of stranded wire for the devices. You'll need to use spec-grade devices with back wire plates to pinch the stranded wire, but actually setting the device is very easy due to the flexibility of the stranded pigtails. These could help: Ideal brand term-a-nut prefab flexible pigtails.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]61254[/ATTACH]
 
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Old 01-08-16, 09:16 PM
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Tuck the wires well back into the boxes out of the way of the drywall installer's Rotozip bit.
I can't repeat this one enough. The crews I get to follow up after have little to no regard for wiring.
Then there is the language barrier.

Two for using deep boxes. I always use deep boxes except in a shallow wall.
All my kitchens are roughed in 1900 - 4" square boxes with mud rings. There's nothing like trying to get a GFI receptacle with two #12 cables in a gem box.
 
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