Wiring Bath Fan + Heater + Light + Night light

Reply

  #1  
Old 01-16-16, 01:56 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 12
Wiring Bath Fan + Heater + Light + Night light

Hi all. Wanting to install a Panasonic WhisperWarm fan in my bathroom. The model number is FV-11VHL2. As stated in the title, it has a built in fan, heater, light and night light. I will be using a 3-gang box with a motion sensor connected to the night light, a timer switch connected to the exhaust, and a dual-rocker switch controlling the light and heater. A note here; there are 3 existing can lights that I want to be controlled with the same switch that turns on the fan light. Also, I would like the light to be the upper rocker and the heater be on the lower.

I did a search on here and found someone asking for the same help. Unfortunately, I could not wrap my head around the advice given. It was Greek to me. I'm a total visual person or a 'connect-the-dots' kind of guy. So I'll post a bunch of pictures and see if some of you experts and lead me to water.

Here are the switches I will be using:

Timer:

Name:  IMG_3136.jpg
Views: 3820
Size:  20.6 KB

Name:  timer back.jpg
Views: 3074
Size:  30.7 KB

Motion sensor:

Name:  motion front.jpg
Views: 2166
Size:  20.6 KB

Name:  motion.jpg
Views: 2106
Size:  25.2 KB

Rocker switch:

Name:  dual rocker front.jpg
Views: 2150
Size:  21.4 KB

Name:  dual rocker back.jpg
Views: 2198
Size:  39.5 KB

These are the connections from the exhaust unit:

Name:  IMG_3141.jpg
Views: 2148
Size:  19.4 KB

Name:  IMG_3142.jpg
Views: 2050
Size:  18.7 KB

Name:  IMG_3140.jpg
Views: 1998
Size:  20.2 KB

These are the existing wires coming into the box. One set ran a vent/light combo, one set is power, and the other is for the existing can lights mentioned above:

Name:  IMG_3143.jpg
Views: 2083
Size:  34.9 KB
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 01-16-16, 02:00 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 12
Continued....

This is the wiring diagram from online PDF:

Name:  fan.jpg
Views: 8090
Size:  54.0 KB

As I said earlier, I am a visual guy, so hopefully, someone will be willing to take the time to help me connect the dots. These are a couple of images that I made to make someone's job easier hopefully. One has numbers in case someone could tell me something like, "Connect 1 to 6" or "Wire 1,4,7, and 9 are all pigtailed." The other obviously doesn't.

Name:  wiring with numbers.jpg
Views: 3072
Size:  17.6 KB

Name:  wiring.jpg
Views: 2809
Size:  17.0 KB

If I've confused everyone or if you need any other info or pics, please don't hesitate to ask. I'll provide anything I can to help you help me.
 
  #3  
Old 01-16-16, 03:07 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 12
Sorry, could a MOD move this to the appropriate forum? I just saw that I put it in the wrong one.
 
  #4  
Old 01-16-16, 03:43 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 32,644
No, it is fine in this forum.

I'm curious why at the switch box you seem to have one 12-2 UFb, one 12-2 NM-b and one 10-2 NM-b cable. Is all three of those power in on different breakers?
 
  #5  
Old 01-16-16, 04:43 PM
Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 686
Name:  wiring.jpg
Views: 3415
Size:  44.2 KB

This is how it should be wired.

You said Exhaust fan will be run by timer and light/heater on dual switch. However your drawing shows Exhaust instead of Heater. So I changed them.
Grey wire is meant to be white.
Any place where wires over lap without dot is not connected to each other.

Also I added ground for exhaust fan.
 
  #6  
Old 01-16-16, 04:47 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 12
No, just one is power. I'm guessing whoever wired it before just used what wire they had on hand.
 
  #7  
Old 01-16-16, 05:04 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 32,644
If one is power that only leaves two cables for four switches so you are going to need to run new cable.

Have you actually use a multimeter (not a non contact tester) to determine which cable is hot? If no please do.
 
  #8  
Old 01-16-16, 05:12 PM
Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 686
One thing I just noticed is heater in that fan is 1400W.
You may be to pull dedicated power line from breaker panel unless it already is (very unlikely).

If you do, connect both hot (black wire) and neutral (white wire) from heater to dedicated line. Ground can be connected together.

You may also choose to run everything in exhaust fan on dedicated power except light so you can wire existing can lights together.
 
  #9  
Old 01-16-16, 06:00 PM
Handyone's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: U.S.
Posts: 5,451
Agreed,
If you want to install this you're looking at running a 20amp dedicated line for this unit only and running new cable from the switch box up to the unit.
 
  #10  
Old 01-16-16, 08:32 PM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 14,355
I would suggest smurf tube from the switch to the fan unit. Use individual conductors for the switched hots. Much easier than cables.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 01-16-16 at 08:38 PM. Reason: surf > smurf
  #11  
Old 01-18-16, 01:29 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 12
Thank you for all of the replies and suggestions. Big thank you to Lambition for the diagram. So, I've got a power run to the unit and 2 can lights. Bought the smurf tube and ready to install it. Would someone care to explain to me how to connect it all using individual runs to the switches? Another diagram would be fantastic. Also, as the power line is in the ceiling with the 2 can lights, would I need to junction box the power to split it to the lights and fan unit? If that's the case, I might need help connecting the lights as I figure the wiring is different when power goes to the lights with cable to the switch instead of power to the switch and cable to the lights. Again, all of your posts are/will be appreciated.
 
  #12  
Old 01-18-16, 02:47 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 32,644
I'm a bit confused. Earlier you wrote one of the cables was power in at the switch box but now you write:
as the power line is in the ceiling with the 2 can lights,
So which is it?
 
  #13  
Old 01-18-16, 04:49 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 12
The power in the box runs in the ceiling. This is an upstairs bathroom, so the ceiling is open above it. Not an attic, but I have access to it. the power runs through this area DOWN to the box. So running it to the can lights and fan unit first is just a matter of pulling the cable back up into the ceiling and connecting them in the attic area. Does that make sense? I don't think it matters, but just for reference, the gray cable is the power line, the orange connected to the old fan/light, and the yellow connects to the 2 can lights. I had already ran another 12/2 line for the switches before the suggestion was made to run individual runs down to the switches and to power directly to the fan. I like both of these ideas and am looking for guidance as to how to do it.
 
  #14  
Old 01-18-16, 05:35 PM
Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 686
I might need help connecting the lights as I figure the wiring is different when power goes to the lights with cable to the switch instead of power to the switch and cable to the lights.
Wiring is same except how many wires are run where.
But, according to current code, neutral is required to be in switch box and this means you need to pull power to switch.

I had already ran another 12/2 line for the switches before the suggestion was made
You did right thing. So, forget about power in the light. If can lights are already wired with power in them, disconnect and cap off. Better if you can disconnect from a junction box before going to the can light.


Name:  wiring.jpg
Views: 8179
Size:  30.3 KB

Here is updated diagram showing dedicated power and can lights.

I connected dedicated lines to heater only, but you may choose to run fan from it as well.
However, lights must be on existing line since you are connecting existing can lights.

As for running individual runs in smurf tube, you basically treat it as a conduit. You can run individual conductors (wires) instead of whole new cable.
Personally, unless your run is long, I'd just run regular romex. Only reason is cost for purchasing different colored THHN. You could just buy large roll of one color and different color tapes to mark, but gets very confusing when you cut the wire.
You only have to run 3 romex from the fan, or 2 if you choose to connect both heater and exhaust to dedicated line.

Your options are:
1 12-2 for Heater
1 14-2 for Exhuast (12-2 if existing power is 20A)
1 14-3 for Light + N. Light (12-3 if existing power is 20A)

or

1 12-3 for Heater + Exhuast
1 14-3 for Light + N. Light (12-3 if existing power is 20A)

Red wire from 12-3 or 14-3 can be used as 2nd hot (black wire).



If you choose to go for individual wires in smurf tube,
1 12 AWG THHN Green (for ground)
1 12 AWG THHN Black (for heater hot)
1 12 AWG THHN White (for heater neutral)
1 14 AWG THHN Red (for exhaust fan hot) (12 AWG if existing power is 20A)
1 14 AWG THHN Blue (for light hot) (12 AWG if existing power is 20A)
1 14 AWG THHN Yellow(for N. light hot) (12 AWG if existing power is 20A)
1 14 AWG THHN Gray (for exhust fan, light, N Light neutral) (12 AWG if existing power is 20A)

all hot wires can be same color, but will be very confusing.
Make sure you don't mix up neutral wire from dedicated power and existing power.

You can connect your can lights inside switch junction box or inside fan, but inside switch is probably better.


If you choose not to run dedicated power from breaker panel, it will be violation of the code as far as I know. Also, it might trip your breaker often if existing power is 15A and depending on how many things are connected to it.
You could just abandon existing power (cap off) and connect both exhaust fan and can lights to new dedicated 20A line and it will work. But, I think it still is violation of the code because it is no longer dedicated line once it powers device outside exhaust fan.

Permanently installed equipment shall not exceed 50% of the circuit utilization. And 1400W heater does exceed 50%.
 

Last edited by lambition; 01-18-16 at 07:00 PM.
  #15  
Old 01-18-16, 07:24 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 12
I've got 5 different colors of 10 AWG from a previous project, so I could use them. I'll have to look to be sure of colors, but I believe I have green, red, white, black, and yellow. I could mark the various hots with different colored tape, so I think I could keep those straight. I'll run a dedicated line from the breaker to the fan tomorrow and then move on to the single runs afterwards. One thing that I'm a bit confused with in your diagram; the dedicated line shows the black running to the switch and the white connecting at the fan. Is that correct? I was under the impression both black and white were going to be connecting at the fan unit.

EDIT: "But, according to current code, neutral is required to be in switch box and this means you need to pull power to switch."

Does this answer my question? It's a bit of a tangent, but why is it necessary to pull power to the box if only neutral is required? I am in no way questioning your information, I'm just interested to know the reasoning.
 
  #16  
Old 01-18-16, 07:28 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 12
There are no staples present on any of the wires. I viewed them from switch to attic when I pulled in the additional 12-2. Not surprised. I cringe to think of the half-donkeyed wiring behind my walls given what I've found in a couple of the projects I've undertaken. When I said that, I was thinking of the individual runs which was suggested, so I didn't think the need for 5-wire would arise.
 
  #17  
Old 01-18-16, 08:11 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 32,644
I was thinking of the individual runs which was suggested, so I didn't think the need for 5-wire would arise.
That was a mistake on my part. It could be done with 3-conductor if you ran separate cable for each. I will delete that post.
 
  #18  
Old 01-18-16, 08:57 PM
Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 686
I've got 5 different colors of 10 AWG from a previous project, so I could use them. I'll have to look to be sure of colors, but I believe I have green, red, white, black, and yellow.
10 AWG will be hard to work with, but will work ok as long as you can make them fit in junction box.
Colors don't really matter as long as you mark neutral with white tape and ground with green tape. It just makes it easier when you have different colors.

You will need 7 conductors to wire with neutral in switch junction box. Otherwise, 5 will do.
In that case, power cable has to be pulled straight to the fan. (2 Neutral wires will not be necessary)
But the code requires you do have neutral in junction box.

It's a bit of a tangent, but why is it necessary to pull power to the box if only neutral is required?
I believe it is so that you can use modern switches with micro controllers(digital dimmers, X10 switches, etc), which requires neutral to work. Don't think there is any safety issue.

One thing that I'm a bit confused with in your diagram; the dedicated line shows the black running to the switch and the white connecting at the fan. Is that correct? I was under the impression both black and white were going to be connecting at the fan unit.
This is wiring diagram and doesn't show which junction box wires come out to. Where wire comes out will not matter as long as they are electrically connected same way.
Both white and black wires eventually goes to the fan. White goes straight to the fan and black goes via switch.
If you wire this up to the code, white wire will come to switch junction box, then just wire nut to white wire coming from the fan.

Also, note that neutral wire (white wire) can be tied together if and only if they are on same the circuit (same breaker). If you tie neutral from 2 different circuit or mix up, you may end up overloading neutral wire.
 
  #19  
Old 01-19-16, 03:34 AM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 363
Just a quick thought that maybe I missed in this entire thread but looked for. If it is decided that two separate power sources are being brought in to the switch for the heater light shouldn't the tab be taken off the two button switch so the power remains separate on the switch from the two sources?
Sorry, if I am wrong but this just caught my attention.
 
  #20  
Old 01-19-16, 03:42 AM
Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 686
f it is decided that two separate power sources are being brought in to the switch for the heater light shouldn't the tab be taken off the two button switch
Yes you are correct. Totally forgot about that.

Name:  dual rocker back.jpg
Views: 1840
Size:  36.8 KB

This tab must be broken off.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
'