generac 7500EXL generator bonded neutral question

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  #41  
Old 02-14-16, 12:44 PM
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The NEC requires you to ground the neutral at only one location in a system:usually at the utility service entrance. Two grounds on a grounded system (e.g., 1-phase, 3-wire; 3-phase, 4-wire; or grounded delta) would result in parallel neutral and ground paths. Current will divide between the two paths and be a safety/coordination problem.


If you allow a second ground to exist, you'll end up looping the resulting parallel paths. Thus, neutral current could flow in a "de-energized" circuit and through ground relaying. Then, the main system breaker or the generator breaker could open via ground fault relaying without a ground fault. Because of the load balance inherent in generator designs, trouble may not immediately surface. Common problems that may not have immediate symptoms include such things as locating a generator on heavy harmonic circuits and not accounting for inrush. With an already compromised ground fault protection system, such a situation is a recipe for disaster.




. .
 
  #42  
Old 02-15-16, 01:52 PM
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Tested the continuity. Stayed at 1, which is none correct?
 
  #43  
Old 02-15-16, 01:57 PM
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Yes it would stay at 1 on a digital multi meter AFAIK..

Strange that your tester reads 2 yellow lights though..
 
  #44  
Old 02-15-16, 02:44 PM
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That's what I thought too. So I fired it up again and tested it again. Same thing, both orange lights and faint red.
 
  #45  
Old 02-15-16, 03:05 PM
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Do you have another tester to try? Not that the results will be different but you never know..
 
  #46  
Old 02-15-16, 03:07 PM
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I can see if work has one. I go back tomorrow
 
  #47  
Old 02-15-16, 03:08 PM
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Also did you do the continuity test with generator off? Try it with gen running .. Also tank voltage readings with meter from various points.. hot to neutral, hot to ground, etc..
 
  #48  
Old 02-18-16, 11:38 AM
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information as asked:

machine OFF continuity test:
ground to neutral 0
ground to hot 0
hot to neutral 2.4

machine on continuity test:
ground to neutral: flashed a number then went to 0
ground to hot -1
hot to neutral: jumping all over readings?


volt test running:
hot to neutral 95
hot to ground 3
neutral to ground 125
 
  #49  
Old 02-18-16, 11:46 AM
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Im home for lunch and will decipher what you wrote when I get home later...

Something seems whacky with the voltage...
 
  #50  
Old 02-20-16, 10:49 AM
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I should not be seeing voltage from neutral to ground correct?
 
  #51  
Old 02-20-16, 02:01 PM
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Its been a while but I see about 5volts on mine when its not plugged into anything. Once I plug into the house the 5 volts goes away...

And hot to nuetral I assume you should read 120volts..
 
  #52  
Old 02-23-16, 09:01 AM
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Thanks for the help so far lawrosa.

I honestly have no idea what to do next? Know one has ever ran into this situation?
 
  #53  
Old 02-23-16, 10:13 AM
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You might want to look for an electrician that has experience with wiring transfer switches and panels.
I should not be seeing voltage from neutral to ground correct?
If you are using an analog multimeter no but if you are using a digital multimeter yes because they can be pron to false reading from capacitive are induced voltages. http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/...105317_A_w.pdf
 
  #54  
Old 02-23-16, 11:20 AM
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Thanks. It is a digital multi meter
 
  #55  
Old 02-23-16, 12:35 PM
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Also be aware if you used a plug in tester under certain conditions they may give a false report. A final test always needs to be done with an analog multimeter or a digital meter with special circuits for reading AC.
 
  #56  
Old 02-24-16, 10:40 AM
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With the bonding jumper removed on the gen are you testing at the gen with the power inlet cord attached to the house? With the bonding jumper removed the gen needs to be connected to the house wiring to have a proper ground for testing.
 
  #57  
Old 02-24-16, 11:08 AM
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With the bonding jumper removed the gen needs to be connected to the house wiring to have a proper ground for testing.
True but we are not there yet in regards to that testing.. Because with the bond removed the gen should test properly without hooking up to the home..

I dont think we have reached that point yet due to conflicting test readings...

From what I know all outlets should show open ground as I remember mine does...
 
  #58  
Old 02-27-16, 12:27 PM
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i have yet to find another tester to see if mine is correct or giving false readings.
maybe ill just buy another.
any suggestions or brand?
i have not gotten any further yet since my last post.
 
  #59  
Old 02-27-16, 12:38 PM
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Another tester would probably give the same false reading. It is the nature of how they are constructed and work not a fault in the tester. You need to use and rely on the results of a multimeter not a plug in tester. I haven't followed the whole thread but am assuming you are talking about a simple plug in tester which is sold to test household receptacle. Not sure what the error is you keep getting. I am not a gen pro and don't want to sort through the whole thread.
 
  #60  
Old 02-27-16, 01:54 PM
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One thing...... NEVER check continuity with a live voltage. The OHMS function is always used on a dead circuit. That's why the meter flashed.

volt test running:
hot to neutral 95
hot to ground 3
neutral to ground 125
Are you 100% sure you did this test correct ?
There is no reason for you not to measure 120v from hot to neutral.

I'd have to go back an re-read the thread to find out what the issue. Mike may have an idea.
 
  #61  
Old 02-28-16, 10:38 AM
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Is this test with the bond lifted?
yes,i removed the purple bond wire and placed the green wire onto the receptacles neutral
I'm a bit confused by this. To remove the neutral to ground bond should only require the removal of one jumper. Connecting a green wire to the neutral does not sound right. I have a Generac 7500GE and it only needed one wire removed that went from the ground terminal on a receptacle to the neutral terminal on the same receptacle.
 
  #62  
Old 02-28-16, 12:35 PM
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The green wire comes from the control board... It was on the ground but we moved it to the nuetral. It was said that the auto idle switch may not work unless it was moved...

So yes move the grn wire back and test again...
 
  #63  
Old 02-28-16, 03:05 PM
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The green wire comes from the control board... It was on the ground but we moved it to the nuetral. It was said that the auto idle switch may not work unless it was moved...

So yes move the grn wire back and test again...
I'm thinking the green/yellow stays put on the 120V receptacle ground terminal. The green stays put on the 120V receptacle ground strap. The short piece #22 (which I assume is the short purple wire) from ground terminal to neutral terminal on the 120V receptacle needs to be removed and that's it. At least that's all I had to do to my gen. I misstated my model, it's a GP7500E. Maybe the two gens are so different that what worked for my gen is not that simple on the 7500EXL.

Oh... when tested with the receptacle tester I get just an open ground without a bonding plug inserted in the gen receptacle or hooked to the house. With the bonding plug inserted or hooked to the house I get correct wiring indication with the receptacle tester. Nothing weird.
 
  #64  
Old 02-28-16, 05:17 PM
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I will absolutely try that again.
I already put all wires where they were set from the factory just in case. I will try your suggestions and report back what the tester says.
Thanks.
 
  #65  
Old 03-01-16, 02:26 PM
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Same results as last time.
If I do not move the green wire (that's attached to the circuit board) to the neutral I lose my idle control.
When I remove the bond (short purple), I get hot neutral reverse on the bottom outlet and all 3 lit for the top.
 
  #66  
Old 03-01-16, 04:22 PM
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I get hot neutral reverse on the bottom outlet and all 3 lit for the top.

Seems impossible...


information as asked:
machine OFF continuity test:
ground to neutral 0
ground to hot 0
hot to neutral 2.4
I would like to see more meter testing as the continuity test would seem all is fine...

Possibly ray can give better test instructions...
 
  #67  
Old 03-01-16, 05:02 PM
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When I remove the bond (short purple), I get hot neutral reverse on the bottom outlet and all 3 lit for the top.
Test with a multimeter. Hot neutral reversed is a common error for plug in testers if there is no ground.
 
  #68  
Old 03-01-16, 05:37 PM
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Test with a multimeter
ok, i will.
any certain test you are looking for?
volts? continuity? im a little confused since one person states never to test continuity with live voltage.
i hope i am not frustrating anyone with my ignorance. if i am i apologize.

I would like to see more meter testing as the continuity test would seem all is fine...
sure thing! i will post results.
strange how your tester reads the open ground with yours but not mine? maybe its the brand?
 
  #69  
Old 03-01-16, 07:08 PM
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strange how your tester reads the open ground with yours but not mine? maybe its the brand? Yes I have no pics but my tester showed true..
Yes my tester read true on my gen... Thats why its confusing.

I use the klein tools unit that I have had for ever...

But as ray stated it may be they are not accurate... I dont know the inter workings of them why I suggested using a different model..../make


Receptacle Tester - RT100 | Klein Tools - For Professionals since 1857
 
  #70  
Old 03-01-16, 07:12 PM
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strange how your tester reads the open ground with yours but not mine? maybe its the brand?
Not brand. It is normal for that type of tester. We have had many threads from people thinking they had a reversed neutral/hot reverse when it is an open ground. You need to measure the neutral (wide slot) to a known good ground. Haven't followed the whole thread but give me the details of what where you are testing I can be more specific.
 
  #71  
Old 03-01-16, 07:15 PM
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And whats better to test continuity ray? The beep on the meter or ohms?
 
  #72  
Old 03-01-16, 07:23 PM
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Never having had a tester that beeped I have no opinion.
 
  #73  
Old 03-01-16, 07:29 PM
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Never having had a tester that beeped I have no opinion.
Really ? I have always had one... Mine is at least 30 year old digital...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G622WDZaHg
 
  #74  
Old 03-06-16, 03:36 PM
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ok, here are my continuity test results
generator OFF

bond connected
ground to neutral .9
ground to hot 1.1
hot to neutral 1.4

green wire from circuit board moved to neutral for idle control function AND bond removed

ground to neutral 0
ground to hot 0
hot to neutral 1.1
 
  #75  
Old 03-09-16, 07:13 PM
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today i shut off all breakers (main power included), attached the genny and flipped on a breaker for an outlet to test. the light tester checked out fine (connection is correct), i tested for volts and all seem fine.
does this mean im good to go?
 
  #76  
Old 03-09-16, 07:52 PM
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Its would seem yes... Put your plug in tester into the gen during the outlet test you stated below...... It should also read correct...
 
  #77  
Old 03-10-16, 06:22 PM
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fired the genny up again as requested. the tester still gave me strange readings though, i un-hooked my power cord from the genny while it was running to see if i would get any strange readings and it lit up as correct wiring?
i tested the voltage between the hot, ground and neutral and all tested well inside of the house again.
as other have stated, im not sure i trust that tester as being correct but doing the continuity test, that showed me the ground is no longer bonded to the neutral in the genny while un-hooked from the house.
 
  #78  
Old 03-10-16, 06:31 PM
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Go with it IMO.. But get a new tester for ^%$ts and giggles and let us know..
 
 

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