generac 7500EXL generator bonded neutral question

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  #1  
Old 01-31-16, 02:28 PM
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generac 7500EXL generator bonded neutral question

hello,
im hoping this is a simple question and answer for my situation. i opened up the face panel to my generator to look for the bonding wire and found it.


what i also found was that my L14-30 outlet (which is what ill be using) has no ground attached to it?

what i am confused about now is if the 240 volt L14-30 outlet is a bonded outlet or not? i am looking for any answers someone may have (simpler the better ). is it just because its not a bonded outlet???

 
  #2  
Old 01-31-16, 02:56 PM
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If the receptacle is attached to a metal mounting plate then it is grounded.
 
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Old 01-31-16, 08:46 PM
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Ground of the outlet is grounded to the frame of the generator through mounting plate as PJmax said.

And from reading the manual and looking at circuit diagram of this generator, Neutral is grounded (bonded).
You can also see that from your 1st picture showing duplex 120V outlet. See purple wire jumping from neutral to ground.
The generator is not really grounded until it is connected to grounding rod or house ground.
 
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Old 01-31-16, 10:17 PM
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If your generator had GFI circuit breakers..... you'd need to be observant of a neutral bond because that would cause the GFI to trip.

Your generator uses standard circuit breakers.... don't remove any jumpers.
 
  #5  
Old 02-02-16, 08:22 AM
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For what use will this generator be used? If it is to power the house during a utility outage then will you be using a neutral switching transfer panel or transfer switch? If the answer to the second question is no, then IF you continue the four-conductor interconnect cable from the transfer panel/switch to the generator then you will have created a parallel path for the neutral (returning) currents through the equipment grounding conductor of the interconnect cable.

Now, lots and lots of temporary generators are connected in that manner but it DOES pose a hazard, albeit a small one. Without going into all the details, the pluses and minuses of the situation, I will state that I do not recommend it. If you want further information then ask, otherwise I will not stress my fingers any more on the subject.
 
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Old 02-09-16, 11:53 AM
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yes furd, it is a temporary power source when we lose power.
here's how i have it wired:
interlock kit on main panel > 75(ish)feet of 8-3 cable > generac 30 AMP inlet box located outside > 40 feet of 10-4 L14-30 wire.

i fear i have messed up though. i have read about the chances of the neutral and ground running parallel. i removed the purple jumper wire and ran a test with everything hooked up. i managed to take out a microwave, a direct tv receiver and a surge protector for my desk top. im thinking a meter would have been cheaper than the electronics i fried but that's not the case. im wondering if i connected (wired) my power inlet box wrong? ive read so many stories where people were fine and others had the same result but i cant find an answer as to why this happened? this was an instant disaster! all the lights and such worked that i had turned on (the whole 45 seconds). i know this could have been worse, i just dont know what went wrong yet. i have not been able to really investigate since i have been working since. but i am looking for ideas on what to check.

i have read that generators are known for having dirty power, but this was instant, by the time i made it upstairs to check things out, these things were already toast!
 
  #7  
Old 02-09-16, 12:41 PM
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It sounds like you may have had an open neutral connection. or worse, swapped one of the hots and neutral, either of which could have easily damaged your devices. Recheck the wiring, and verify that you have 120 from each side of the transfer breaker to ground with a meter before you turn the transfer breaker on again.
 
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Old 02-09-16, 02:59 PM
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i will check the wiring this coming weekend to see. i will definitely get a meter and check the wires going into the panel before i hook them up again.
thanks
i will report back my findings.
 
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Old 02-09-16, 04:32 PM
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interlock kit on main panel
whats your panel brand?

Whats size breaker did you use?

What color wires did you run from the breaker to the 30 amp inlet box?

But explain this please....


75(ish)feet of 8-3 cable >> 40 feet of 10-4 L14-30 wire.
You ran 10/3 from where to where?

You ran 10/4 from where to where?



[ATTACH=CONFIG]62663[/ATTACH]
 
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Old 02-09-16, 06:11 PM
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sorry, sometimes my fingers aren't nearly as fast as the brain...

panel is a crouse hinds
30 amp (back feed) breakers
red and black to the breakers
white to neutral bar
ground to ground bar

i used 8-3 wire because the run was just shy of 75 feet from the panel to the generac inlet box (located outside)

the 10/4 is the power cord ran from the generator to the inlet box (located outside)

thanks for the attachment!
 
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Old 02-09-16, 06:45 PM
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ok did you wire the 8-3 wire to inlet as the diagram shows?

Is this the kit you have?

K-7010 | For Crouse Hinds Panels | AP Electric



the 10/4 is the power cord ran from the generator to the inlet box
Is this pre made or did you make it?

Did you lift the bod from the gen?

Test gen with one of these to see the status of the bond..


[ATTACH=CONFIG]62670[/ATTACH]


Get one of these to test the voltage and hertz of the gen.. Adjust the governor accordingly.. set to around 62 hz.. let us know the voltage at that hertz...


Kill A Watt Meter - Electricity Usage Monitor | P3


 
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Old 02-09-16, 07:17 PM
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i wont know for sure if i did until the weekend, i MAY have time tomorrow to see if the inlet is wired correct.

Generator InterLock Kit - Crouse Hinds Manual Transfer Switch Kits

kit K-7210

the 10/4 cord is premade from factory

i removed the purple wire (bond) prior to running on genny


i will buy the tester to see what the genny is.


i have the kill-a-watt tester, but i am not sure how to adjust the governor on the genny. i will have to research that one.
 
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Old 02-10-16, 12:05 PM
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so, it appears i have a generator wiring problem? should i return the purple bond wire??
top 120 outlet. all 3 were lit?

bottom outlet. hot neutral reversed




 
  #14  
Old 02-10-16, 12:14 PM
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Try those voltage measurements under load -- plug a space heater or a halogen work light into the kill a watt.
 
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Old 02-10-16, 12:41 PM
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Ok, I replaced the purple bond wire and everything light up like it's supposed to on that tool.
Should I remove the bond again and try it under load like suggested?
 
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Old 02-10-16, 01:40 PM
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All digital voltage meters can provide a misleading voltage measurement unless it is measured in parallel with a load. I'd suggest testing with and without the purple attached.
 
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Old 02-10-16, 03:14 PM
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I have to look at the pics again..

So the tester is reading the gen running but not plugged into the inlet to the panel correct?
 
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Old 02-10-16, 03:46 PM
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It would seem your tester should read two yellows only if everything is correct.. ( from the diagram on the label. Try that device in your homes outlet somewhere as a test and let us know what lights come on...
 
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Old 02-10-16, 04:12 PM
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Yes, correct. In the house the device is working as it should. 2 orange lights. When I placed the purple bond wire back in the 2 orange lights came on also (as in correct)
 
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Old 02-10-16, 04:46 PM
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I dont think thats the correct wire to lift.. You lifted the purple one on the duplex?

With proper bond lifted on gen you should show open ground..Like my gen with a floating neutral this is what it shows..

Once I plug my gen to the home inlet/tranferswitch it gets its bond there. Then lights show correctly connected...
 
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Old 02-10-16, 04:59 PM
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I assume there are no tabs on that duplex???

 
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Old 02-10-16, 05:21 PM
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This is general reference...

PJ max mentioned about not lifting any wires and that was what I deleted.

Furd if you would like to add to the bond issue


http://members.rennlist.org/warren/gt5000c.html

http://members.rennlist.org/warren/generator.html
 
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Old 02-10-16, 05:40 PM
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yes,the purple wire is the one i lifted (and now replaced). and yes, it does have the tab intact.



your link reference is where i got a lot of my info from and read many times (just the first link,the second is one i have not seen). this is where i get confused? how is a ground bond causing so much trouble?
 
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Old 02-10-16, 05:46 PM
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Yes remove that wire..

Your tester should read the same at both outlets.. Are you saying it dont?

Also I am looking to where that yellow wire goes...
 
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Old 02-10-16, 05:56 PM
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It states in that link that the grn wire from the control board should be relocated from the ground to the neutral... Did you see that?

The yellow looks like it attaches to the ground of the rear carrier bearing..


On the 120VAC duplex outlet there is a jumper between ground and neutral. It must be removed. This is the bonding wire. Next, look for a green wire coming from the control board inside the electrical panel. It connects to the 120V 30A L5-30 twistlock outlet. Relocate it from the ground to the neutral connection. This will ensure the auto idle circuit operates properly.



 
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Old 02-10-16, 05:59 PM
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that was the wire i removed (purple bond wire) that caused the tester to read the hot/neutral reversed and having all lights on.

that yellow wire leads into the DC motor right below.


EDIT,YOU POSTED AGAIN

i see that now, the neutral will now be the screw on the receptacle with the connected tab correct?
this one?
 
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Old 02-10-16, 06:25 PM
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i see that now, the neutral will now be the screw on the receptacle with the connected tab correct?
this one?
Yes that tab connects both.. So after you remove the purple wire the bottom plug id still connected to the nuetral from the plug above.

There is no reason that your tester should read different... Unless I am missing someyhing...

And that green wire it states to move that from the ground to the nuetral where you removed the purple wire.. Thats to keep the idle control working...
 
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Old 02-10-16, 07:12 PM
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Furd if you would like to add to the bond issue
When that machine was wired it looks like they used whatever color of wire they had lying around on the floor. Neither neutrals or equipment grounding conductors should ever be purple.

Nope, not gonna touch this one with a fork! :NO NO NO:
 
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Old 02-10-16, 07:26 PM
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ill move the wires as directed and give it a shot. It won't be until Saturday since the next two days are 12 hour work days.
 
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Old 02-13-16, 12:39 PM
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well i moved the two wires as directed and it seemed to work!
both orange lights lit but i got a real faint red light too.
i did not test anything on it (plugged something into it) as im not sure what i should do next? i figured i would wait for advice on here instead of frying something else.
thank you so much for all the help so far, its greatly appreciated.
 
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Old 02-13-16, 12:45 PM
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Both lights lit?? If the bond was lifted you should get open ground no? Or are the two lights lit with it plugged into the inlet to the panel..??
 
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Old 02-13-16, 01:17 PM
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I checked the receptacle on the panel with the tool and it read two orange (correct).
 
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Old 02-13-16, 02:12 PM
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Ok lets step back..

With your tester plugged in to the gen and generator running you get two yellow lights?

Is this test with the bond lifted?

And is this with nothing else plugged into the gen?
 
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Old 02-13-16, 02:17 PM
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Ive undeleted petes post from way in the beggining FYI... Just posting here to let pete know..

There was concern on why I deleted it...

If your generator had GFI circuit breakers..... you'd need to be observant of a neutral bond because that would cause the GFI to trip.

Your generator uses standard circuit breakers.... don't remove any jumpers.
 
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Old 02-13-16, 02:36 PM
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With your tester plugged in to the gen and generator running you get two yellow lights?
yes, two yellow lights with the red faintly lit

Is this test with the bond lifted?
yes,i removed the purple bond wire and placed the green wire onto the receptacles neutral

And is this with nothing else plugged into the gen?
correct, nothing is plugged into the genny but the tester
 
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Old 02-13-16, 03:27 PM
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Well you should show open ground with the bond lifted..

Here mine is plugged into my transfer switch inlet . This is the only time my gen shows correct polarity.. If I unplugged my gen from my inlet to the transfer switch I would show an open ground...

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Something is wrong then and the bond is not yet lifted...
 
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Old 02-13-16, 05:04 PM
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Any ideas what it could be? I am not sure what to do next.
 
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Old 02-13-16, 05:09 PM
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I have to think about it and review your schematic
 
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Old 02-14-16, 12:32 PM
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If your generator had GFI circuit breakers..... you'd need to be observant of a neutral bond because that would cause the GFI to trip.

Your generator uses standard circuit breakers.... don't remove any jumpers.
isn't the purpose of removing the bond wire to prevent shock on the genny itself caused from a parallel return with the neutral and ground?
i am not sure i follow as to why standard circuit breakers change this? i am no electrician BTW, i am just following all of the articles I have been reading about this situation.
 
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Old 02-14-16, 12:37 PM
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Do you have a volt meter that measures continuity?

Test the ground and neutral of the plug with the generator off... You should have no continuity..
 
 

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