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question on changing 12-3 for 2 circuits to 12-3 + 12-2 for the 2 circuits...

question on changing 12-3 for 2 circuits to 12-3 + 12-2 for the 2 circuits...

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  #1  
Old 02-21-16, 09:04 AM
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question on changing 12-3 for 2 circuits to 12-3 + 12-2 for the 2 circuits...

Hello all - I'm hoping you can answer a question for me. I am in the midst of a kitchen remodel that is requiring the addition of a subpanel just beside my existing panel as I don't have enough room in the existing to add the larger AFCI breakers required by code. I've got my subpanel (60 amp) powered now and have 6 AFCI single pole breakers ready to go. I've removed the 2 20 amp circuits from the existing panel and it turns out they were run with one 12-3 wire instead of 2 12-2 wires (romex). So my single pole breakers won't work.

To my knowledge, I believe I have 2 options - return all the single pole AFCI breakers and purchase 2 pole AFCI breakers (FYI, I'm using a siemens box and siemens breakers), OR run an additional 12-2 romex cable to the same box where the 12-3 currently splits into the 2 circuits.

My question is, what is recommended? I am able to get the new wire where i need it as I have attic access and a lot of sheetrock removed in the house. Cost wise, I think it is about the same as the dual pole breakers seem a lot more expensive (but 1 would replace 2, so that may be a wash).

If I use the existing 12-3 and add a 12-2, is it code to just clip the red wire at the start and end of the run so it is not extended past the romex insulation?

I do have a permit, and all of this will be inspected, so I want to make sure I folow the 2014 code which my town/state follows.

Thanks!
 
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Old 02-21-16, 09:12 AM
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Cost wise, I think it is about the same as the dual pole breakers seem a lot more expensive (but 1 would replace 2, so that may be a wash)
I know for a fact that Siemens 2 pole AFCI breakers are cheaper then 2 single pole AFCI breakers, not by much, but they are. We use them all the time. I would just install two pole breaker(s).
 
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Old 02-21-16, 11:37 AM
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Thank you. I guess I am operating on old information. I'll just wait till the electrical supply store opens tomorrow and get the 2 pole breakers. I see we live in the same state, so If you donit all the time, my city inspector should not have any concerns with me taking this path. Hopefully viking electric stocks the breakers I need. My kitchen is without power at the moment. Running the fridge off of an extension cord is definitely not to code!
 
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Old 02-21-16, 01:38 PM
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Hopefully viking electric stocks the breakers I need
Viking is where we buy ours and they should have them in stock, if not, they can get them by the afternoon if you stop by in the A.M.
 
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Old 02-22-16, 08:30 AM
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Thanks for all your help. Viking had exactly what I needed and I now have electricity in my kitchen again. You helped make my wife a happy lady!
 
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Old 02-22-16, 08:46 AM
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The following is important when installing a multi-wire branch circuit and post back if it needs clarification.

In the first box where the 240 splits, the neutral from the 12/3 source cable and the neutrals from the (2) 12/2 cables that the source feeds must be connected directly together with a pigtail to any device that might be in that box.

In other words you cannot connect the source neutral directly to a receptacle for instance, and then use that receptacles terminals to continue neutral downstream.
 
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Old 02-22-16, 02:36 PM
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Thanks for the advice. I'll verify that that is how it currently is and make sure I maintain that connection structure if I need to make any changes in the box.
 
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Old 02-22-16, 06:21 PM
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Thanks for all your help. Viking had exactly what I needed and I now have electricity in my kitchen again. You helped make my wife a happy lady!
Glad to hear they were able to set you up.
 
 

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