Adding more circuits to my breaker panel


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Old 02-27-16, 12:57 AM
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Adding more circuits to my breaker panel

I have a house built in the early 70's, I'm also the 5th owner of the house and one of the prior homeowners did some remodeling in the house... my question is... I'm finishing the basement and I need to run some more circuits to the breaker panel and the panel does not have anymore room for additional circuits... How would I balance out the existing breakers in the box in order to free up some of them so I can add the new circuits... the panel has 20 circuits and 4 of them are taken up with the clothes dryer and the range...
It looks to me that they used up some of the empty circuits when they did the kitchen and bathroom remodeling... I would like to add 2 new circuits to the basement, plus circuits for jetted bathtubs both upstairs and downstairs... also I would like to put a 240 outlet in the garage for a welder...
 
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Old 02-27-16, 04:58 AM
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A little more info on the panel would be helpful,i.e. Main breaker size,mfg. also some pics.
 
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Old 02-27-16, 05:11 AM
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Will need more info and possibly pictures, but I think you will probably need to add a sub-panel unless you have panel that you can add tandem breakers.
 
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Old 02-27-16, 08:45 PM
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The box is Square D Name:  20160227_211043.jpg
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Old 02-27-16, 08:50 PM
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Name:  20160227_210834.jpg
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Size:  34.9 KB The 2nd picture shows the breakers...
 
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Old 02-27-16, 10:50 PM
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What is the model number?
 
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Old 02-28-16, 04:49 AM
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Looks like a 100 SQ D panel and also looks like there are 2 spares in the bottom 2 blank spots,only thing to do is add a sub panel for the additional circuits,better do a load calculation to be sure that the 100 Amp service will handle the additional loads.
 
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Old 02-28-16, 05:40 AM
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You also have two breakers that are off. Perhaps not being used. Might make of some easy relocation for a two pole breaker of the sub panel.

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Old 02-28-16, 01:18 PM
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Size:  24.8 KB sticker on the back side of panel door...
 
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Old 02-28-16, 01:21 PM
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Old 02-28-16, 01:25 PM
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Size:  49.8 KBbetter look at 9 and 17...
 
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Old 02-28-16, 01:29 PM
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#9 was the sump pump one of the previous owners un hooked and filled up the pit with concrete...
#17 is only wired to the disposal and separate outlet in the same vicinity...
 
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Old 02-28-16, 01:46 PM
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on the list for install is...
finish basement -
add laundry room
add small bedroom
add master bedroom & bathroom
add whirlpool bathtub
add 120 circuit for toilet

upstairs -
add whirlpool bathtub

garage -
add garage door opener
add 1 -220 outlet for welder
add 2 - 120 circuits(extra)

outside - 3 circuits
 
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Old 02-28-16, 01:52 PM
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load calculation? you lost me...
 
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Old 02-28-16, 03:19 PM
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Example of a load calculator: Service and Panel Size Calculator Google electric load calculator for more.
 
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Old 02-28-16, 04:46 PM
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Can you provide us the panel catalog number from the label inside the panel box? That appears to be a typical 100 amp 20 circuit panel that doesn't accept tandem breakers. If I am correct, the tandem breaker is a non-CTL breaker that is only supposed to be used as a replacement breaker in pre-1968 panels. This isn't a huge problem as you can just move that circuit to the old sump pump breaker and remove the tandem.
 
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Old 02-28-16, 10:20 PM
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Catalog No. QOC-20M E7 series is on the sticker as well...
 
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Old 02-28-16, 10:28 PM
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The panel isn't intended for tandems.
 
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Old 02-28-16, 11:03 PM
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according to the calculator when I enter the info it is asking for, unless I did it wrong... VA 16760 and the calculated amperage is 70...
 
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Old 02-29-16, 12:21 AM
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Was the 70 before or after adding the new loads?
 

Last edited by pcboss; 02-29-16 at 02:57 PM.
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Old 02-29-16, 10:49 AM
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Catalog No. QOC-20M E7 series is on the sticker as well...

Back in the '70s Square D sold all their loadcenter covers separately and didn't include them in the same box as the loadcenter. That number is for the cover/door.

ray2047


The panel isn't intended for tandems.
I think Ray is right.
 
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Old 02-29-16, 12:15 PM
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That figure is before the new circuits are added...
here is what the 1800 sq, ft, house powers at it's peak
220v stove
220v dryer
120v washer
120v dishwasher
120v disposal
120v microwave
2 - 120v fridges
120v chest freezer(small)
120v furnace
assorted lights and outlets

Not much runs at the same time, at anytime, on the big demands 1X a day what would be running together would be the fridge and freezer in the garage and then inside would be the fridge, stove, furnace, a few lights... we do a lot of hand washing the dishes, so the dishwasher is maybe 1X a month and the dryer doesn't run when cooking...
When I did the figuring in the calculator, I figured heavy on the load... I'm pretty sure that if someone who did it for a living added it up it would be less...
 
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Old 02-29-16, 01:13 PM
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The panel isn't intended for tandems.
I think Ray is right.
My answer was based on there not being a number four digit number such as "2030" indicating number of all full size breakers (20) or total circuits with tandems(30) and on a search of that number which came up with a 20 place panel plus this thread: http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...ries-e7.html#b
 
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Old 02-29-16, 02:58 PM
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I too will say that is a straight 20 circuit panel.

The tandem should not have been installed.
 
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Old 02-29-16, 03:08 PM
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You don't need any tandems, you have three spaces available. Move the existing circuit on the tandem that is not allowed up to the unused breaker (Might have to change the breaker to match the wire size) and install new breakers you need. Or install a two pole breaker and feed a sub panel.
 
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Old 03-01-16, 04:13 PM
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My answer was also based on the '70s vintage loadcenters having a maximum of 20 circuits in a 100 amp main breaker panel. In those days to get 24 circuits you had to go to a 125 amp main breaker panel. To get than 30 to 40 circuits back then you had to go to a 150 or 200 amp main breaker and to get 42 circuits you had to go to a 225 amp main breaker.
 
 

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