Wire/Cable Gauge from Meter to 100amp Panel.....

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Old 03-12-16, 01:44 PM
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Wire/Cable Gauge from Meter to 100amp Panel.....

Got myself a serious project going! Bought a Church and Parsonage...Attempting to restore and inhabit the structures isn't easy!

So looks can be deceiving, outside showed new conduit, meter, drop line and oh so nice...inside revealed another story...Originally the church had a line running to the home, that upon closer look was romex and when the new panel was installed there was never a new line installed....plus the installed panel is 100amp...

Found out, the length of cable plus conduit, plus 200 amp box, plus plus and plus was going to be to much. Contractor recommended just having the power company install a drop line to the home, and install a 100amp box there...

I am very familiar with DC voltage, but AC is new to me...but learning quickly...

The parsonage/home is a simple 4 room structure with gas for major appliances and a 100 amp should work fine. The structure has a meter box, randomly install in 1980 with out being connected to the pole...home has 1950's? 30 amp service...

Home needs a full re wire as it looks to be 2 wire romex with no ground...1970's era...

Thoughts are to remove fuse panel, inset 100amp breaker box and connect to meter box until home is gutted for new "grounded" wiring...

I need help on determining the gauge/wire/cable that I would need to install from the box to the meter box?? I am not really looking to run conduit as well, just a simple cable affixed to the joist under the home...Going to say the run is 40ft....
 
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Old 03-12-16, 02:06 PM
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Welcome to the forums!

Minimum service size is 100 amps. For that you will need #4 copper or #2 aluminum. Cable will be 4-4-4-6 copper or 2-2-2-4 aluminum. Since your panel will not be "as close as possible" to the meter, you will need to install a 100 fused disconnect on the outside of the house, or a meter/panel combo with a 100 amp main breaker.

I didn't see any other questions so if you have more, please ask.
 
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Old 03-12-16, 06:25 PM
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Awesome thanks!

I want to install the box closer to the meter, actually there is a closet right next to it, but that can happen another day!

I think having the 100amp meter shut off outside, is a good idea no matter what!

Going to go hunt down 100amp breaker boxes now, more learning yeah!! Any recommendations is always helpful too!

Here is the relic that is in the home now, actually when the home was wired it was done very nice....probably the only thing done by a pro lol to bad its just outdated, the layout of plugs n switches are actually great too..

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Here is the existing meter box, do you think I will do okay, by just cleaning/polishing up all the connectors? Or do you think it is toast?

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Looking at the cable, I see there is a dedicated neutral and ground, this box and the one on the church both use the same bar for neutral and ground. With this wire does that mean I must install a ground rod? Neither structures have them. Or is it okay to go with a three wire cable?

Thanks! Becoming more confident in this field
 
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Old 03-12-16, 06:43 PM
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First check with the power company to see if this meter socket is OK with them. In my area the power company requires a bypass handle meter socket. Also meter sockets have gotten larger to comply with wire bending space.

Next to the meter socket you will need to install an outdoor fused disconnect. Something like this would work nicely: GE 100 Amp 240-Volt Fusible Outdoor General-Duty Safety Switch-TG3223R - The Home Depot or this: Square D QO 100 Amp 2-Pole Outdoor Circuit Breaker Enclosure with QO2100 Breaker Included-QO2100NRBCP - The Home Depot

Between the meter and the disconnect you can use three wires. (hot, hot, neutral) From the disconnect to the inside panel you will need to use four wires. (hot, hot, neutral, ground) Also at the disconnect you will need to run a #6 copper wire to a ground rod (or two) and a #6 copper wire to the house water service.
 
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Old 03-12-16, 08:58 PM
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Ah thanks again!

Amazing how much easier, life is when you know the "technical" terms for things, I am learning a lot!

I know the meter boxes, your talking about, the contractor who was here was just complaining about having to replace perfectly good meter boxes with this new style. Thankfully I am in a very rural town and our electric is actually ran threw city hall! They were amazed they turned the power on, to the church with the roof is such horrible shape...

I will head to city hall and have them inspect the box and find out if I can also relocate it a bit closer to the pole, to save on wiring run.

Ugh sucks about the grounding rod! Do you know the easiest way to drive one into the ground? Ugh water service is another question mark here, if I can find the main cast iron line, I will run a ground wire to it as well...

I think I have my list ready, to start this project and now I am just deciding...attempt to fish the service line threw the wall into the basement or up to the attic....or just conduit it on the outside wall...All three of those areas still need major work...

Being the second owners of a 140 year old property isn't a good thing sometimes...
 
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Old 03-12-16, 10:22 PM
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Just curious Tolyn. Here we would just mount the main panel outside under the meter. Wouldn't that be simpler? The existing fuse panel could be run as a sub for now. The new wiring then just connected to the main when done. But I'm no pro and I know elsewhere they seem to put the main panel inside so I'm probably just wrong.
 
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Old 03-13-16, 08:03 AM
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That is definitely another option Ray. Outdoor panels are done quite commonly in the southern states and would be code compliant. Something like this instead of the disconnect would work: Square D Homeline 100 Amp 8-Space 16-Circuit Outdoor Main Plug-On Neutral Breaker Load Center-HOM816M100PRB - The Home Depot This would also give you some circuits outside to feed things like A/C units or a well of needed.

Do you know the easiest way to drive one into the ground?
I use a 3lb hammer to beat in a ground rod. They actually go in fairly easy unless you have rocky soil.
 
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Old 03-13-16, 12:23 PM
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Good idea about the external breaker box, here is a photo of the house, the upper dot is where the main line currently exits and the lower dot is where the meter box was installed...

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If I were to run the existing fuse panel as a sub, I would still need to purchase new wire as the current wire isn't near long enough to stretch to the lower dot. I am going to ask if the meter can be relocated closer to the upper dot but because where the pole is...I am not sure that will work...

I also fear, just running electronics and a space heater off that fuse panel would max it out...

Just adding up parts, to run from the meter to the box..I am looking at close to 500$....which seems like a lot, seeing this doesn't even give me three wire receptacles but at least its something I won't have to worry about for many more years...

I will probably look up salvage yards, and see if I can locate some used parts for the system to save money...

The church still needs a 7,000$ roof job before it rots into the ground
 
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Old 03-13-16, 12:57 PM
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If this is considered a new service, it may trigger a electrical inspection on the house before the service is connected. You might want to make some low key inquires before doing anything else.
 
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Old 03-13-16, 01:04 PM
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I would still need to purchase new wire as the current wire isn't near long enough to stretch to the lower dot.
True but if the fuse box is thirty amps as I believe you wrote your cost fro wire will be considerably less than if you were running a 100 amp feed from a disconnect so even if the meter can't be moved it will cost less and the cable (10-3 NMb) will be a lot easier to work with.
 
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Old 03-13-16, 07:34 PM
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True but if the fuse box is thirty amps as I believe you wrote
That fuse panel looks almost like new! I'd bet it is rated at least at 60 amps and possibly 100 amps. Is there a label inside the panel cover or inside the panel that gives the catalog number and other specs? I'd try to keep it to hold down costs.

I am in a very rural town and our electric is actually ran threw city hall!
Just curious, what power company supplies the power there? Also, do you mind me asking what town you are in?
 
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Old 03-13-16, 08:05 PM
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If this is considered a new service, it may trigger a electrical inspection on the house before the service is connected. You might want to make some low key inquires before doing anything else.
Actually, when we first got here, I had assumed both structures had their own service and I asked to have the home turned on first. After they got here, they found out that the home was once ran off the church. The guy told me, hey we can put a meter on here to but it will cost 150$(connection fee). I went to city hall and asked the cost of a drop line and cost of a meter swap...she said there is no charge for that....This place is totally lax, even at city hall they only except cash and I asked to have my property lines marked...she said they don't do that...
 
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Old 03-13-16, 08:12 PM
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True but if the fuse box is thirty amps as I believe you wrote your cost fro wire will be considerably less than if you were running a 100 amp feed from a disconnect so even if the meter can't be moved it will cost less and the cable (10-3 NMb) will be a lot easier to work with.
This is true, but in the future I do hope to have a dryer, washer, dish washer and other "normal" luxuries and if I did this I would need to re run the service. It may cost me more going with a 100amp service but since I can split the rewire in two...Its not that bad...Just to jerry rig the electric the handyman wanted 450$..and now I found out for that, I can have "modern" service!
 
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Old 03-13-16, 08:20 PM
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True but if the fuse box is thirty amps as I believe you wrote
That fuse panel looks almost like new! I'd bet it is rated at least at 60 amps and possibly 100 amps. Is there a label inside the panel cover or inside the panel that gives the catalog number and other specs? I'd try to keep it to hold down costs.

I am in a very rural town and our electric is actually ran threw city hall!

Just curious, what power company supplies the power there? Also, do you mind me asking what town you are in?
Oh I know! My thoughts were , that both the church and parsonage were updated in the early 70's for the churches hundred anniversary. The home was still furnished in the 70's and all new carpet...my thoughts are the funding ran out to finish the projects. Sadly they didn't opt to spend the money on the roofs and there is soooo much rot!

I just got done ripping out more burnt orange carpet, burning trash and cleaning...so much cleaning...Tomorrow I will get the specs on the label, doing searching I seen it may be higher then 30amp and that it has an separate fused area for a range....Though they never installed the wiring...

No idea, city workers come out and do the electrical....I had about a dozen of them, all show up wanting to look at the property, first time it has been opened in near twenty years! Most people have never been inside...

I am in Salisbury, about 20mins outside Moberly...

Check my site out for more pictures of the project, trying to document what I can!

vintage affair
 
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Old 03-14-16, 12:09 PM
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Well to those curious, the fuse panel is rated at 60 watts...

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Old 03-14-16, 01:06 PM
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If you go with the temp sub then base your breaker and wire size on actual amount of amps you think you need. You can do the whole megillah at 60 amp breaker with #6 or do a lower combination.
 
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Old 03-15-16, 02:41 PM
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the fuse panel is rated at 60 watts...
Kind of what I exected.

I am in Salisbury, about 20mins outside Moberly...
I know where that is, but don't believe I have ever been there. I think it's been about 12 years since I was through Moberly.

Check my site out for more pictures of the project, trying to document what I can!
I checked it out. You have a bit more of a project than I would want to take on, good luck with it!
 
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Old 03-16-16, 04:48 PM
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I know where that is, but don't believe I have ever been there. I think it's been about 12 years since I was through Moberly.

I checked it out. You have a bit more of a project than I would want to take on, good luck with it!
Yeah it is one of those, blink and you'll miss it towns....Finding out there is a lot of those around here, I am surprised all that Moberly has. I came from a town the same size, and it didn't even have a tenth of what it does...

Oh tell me about it! I was so happy to run out and buy the electrical parts, and get that installed in a few months...Then I discover, somehow the drain from the sinks/tub have became disconnected from the main line...And not to mention all the what I thought were solid beams, becoming hollowed out shells...Glad I have the know how, to fix and/or find out how to do this work...
 
 

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