Making an outlet independent from switch

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Old 09-03-16, 09:49 AM
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Exclamation Making an outlet independent from switch

Hello everyone, I have been searching on this topic for the past few weeks in order to prep my installation of a Wink Hub, but i have an issue. Where i would like to place it currently is attached to an outlet, and that is a no go for the internal battery of the hub. Henceforth i need to remove the outlet from the switch.

The switch only goes to the outlet currently but i am adding a ceiling fan in later down the road(to be controlled by the switch aspect of the hub) so i need both the outlet and the switch to have power.

The switch outlet has 2 black, 2 white, and 2 bare grounds. The Outlet has 1 black, 1 white, 1 bare ground. So how would i go about making this work?

Any help would be greatly appreciated because i dont have the ability to hire an electrician at this time due to an overload of overtime from work.
 
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Old 09-03-16, 09:58 AM
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Do you have the wiring to fan installed now or are you adding it later? To get outlet working without switch tie all black together and all white together. Use wire nuts. When you answer question about wiring we can tell you how to do it. For now do not connect any wires to switch.
 
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Old 09-03-16, 10:02 AM
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No the fan is coming later on, currently I'm assuming the switch is only there for the outlet. My issue is I need the outlet to work but at the same time I need power to the switch box as well for the Wink Relay but it cannot be attached to an outlet.
 
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Old 09-03-16, 11:01 AM
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scratch that i have 3 sets of wires at the switch? two from the top and one from the bottom? now i just got incredibly confused, although i would go on a limb and say the bottom ones goto the outlet?
 
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Old 09-03-16, 01:36 PM
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I'm not sure I understand what you want to do...

It sounds like you want no switch at all.
If you want a constant hot and neutral at both the switch box and the receptacle box, just connect all the blacks and whites.
You really should have a meter though to test the wires.
 
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Old 09-03-16, 01:54 PM
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Here is what I am after.

Wink relay in the light switch(needs power)
Remove the outlet completely from the switch but keep it hot.

There are two sets of black white and copper from the top of the switch box and one of each from the bottom of the switch box.

My current plan is to turn off the power disconnect all of the wires in the switch box, turn the power back on and check them to see what stays hot etc etc

If my theory is correct both of the top sets will remain hot and I can connect one to the outlet without a switch and use one for the relay since it needs power but cannot tie into an outlet.
 
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Old 09-03-16, 01:57 PM
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Welcome to the forums.

Does the switch currently operate both the top and bottom half of the receptacle ?

ONLY one cable will show as hot. Be sure you mark which cable goes to the switch.
Answer my question first.
 
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Old 09-03-16, 02:02 PM
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Yes the switch operates both top and bottom on the outlet.

I am not opposed to making the outlet cold for the time being until I get an electrician here to run the wires for a fan along with some other little things I need done.
 
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Old 09-03-16, 02:13 PM
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Your wiring is straightforward.

You have three cables. One is the feed in. One is the feed out. One is the receptacle.

You will be combining all three whites together in one splice and all three black wires in a second splice.

Your problem here is when you add the fan wiring and that WiFi switch your are going to run out of room in that box.
 
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Old 09-03-16, 02:27 PM
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I get what your saying(3 and 3 is how it is now)

But when I take it all apart and turn the power on what will be hot? The receptacle?
 
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Old 09-03-16, 03:14 PM
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You have three cables....

One cable comes from the source: ie - the panel..... and is the feed in.
One cable is feed out to other receptacles.
One cable is feed out to the switched receptacle.

If you open the splices... ONLY the feed in cable can be live.
 
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Old 09-03-16, 03:22 PM
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Yeah I found that one out, I put the two cold ones back together(both white and black) and so far the two are fine but I am left with a dead outlet for now, but thats fine, I'll just plug that lamp in somewhere else.. smart bulbs and such..

I doubt anything else has been affected everything in the house still all works the same as before...
 
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Old 09-04-16, 12:27 AM
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I'm completely lost.

Why didn't you connect all the black wires and all the white wires ?
 
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Old 09-04-16, 08:42 AM
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If my theory is correct both of the top sets will remain hot and I can connect one to the outlet without a switch and use one for the relay since it needs power but cannot tie into an outlet.
Your theory is incorrect. Both top sets are not hot. You cannot connect one of the top cables to the outlet and the other to the relay.

Maybe you need pigtails and haven't seen them before. It's a 6 - 8" section of wire used to connect a device off of a bundle of wires.
At the switch box, connect all three wires together with the pigtails feeding the relay.
 
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Old 09-04-16, 09:14 AM
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I didn't connect all the black wires because one went to an outlet, found out the rest of the circuit by doing so, the bathroom, hallway, and bits in the basement didn't work...

So how can I make all the black wires into 1 as well as the white wires into 1?

I put everything back to normal for the time being since I still need power to the rest of that circuit...
 
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Old 09-04-16, 09:53 AM
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http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...-pictures.html

See the link above.
I think it's time for a few pictures of the wires so there is no confusion. With pictures, people here on the site can show you exactly how to wire.
 
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Old 09-04-16, 10:04 AM
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My thoughts exactly.

Also do a GOOGLE image search on "how convert a switched outlet to always powered". There are many diagrams to walk you through the wire path.

edit: You might want to look at this when you go to put up your fan (lifted from oneprojectcloser.com) (Mods...is this allowed? If not please remove)
[h=2]Review of Switched Outlet Wiring (Power Enters at the Outlet)[/h]
In this diagram, voltage enters the circuit at location (A) in a standard 2-wire (+ground) Romex. The white neutral wire from this Romex is connected directly to the silver terminals on the receptacle (E), and the black hot wire is connected to the white wire running to the switch (B). The white and black wires from this Romex are connected to the switch (C). The black wire at the switch is now switched hot which is run back to the receptacle and connected to the gold terminal (D). The result: the outlet is only hot when the switch is turned on.
Notice that in this diagram, the neutral wire never leaves the receptacle box. Voltage exits the receptacle box on the white wire to the switch, and then returns as switched power on the black wire, both in the same Romex cable.
To rewire this circuit to control an overhead fixture, we need to get both hot and neutral to the switch box, and ultimately out a second Romex to an overhead fixture. We do this by repurposing the Romex between the receptacle and the switch, and adding an additional Romex to the overhead fixture. Here’s how the wiring diagram changes:
[h=2]Rewire a Switch to Control an Overhead Fixture[/h]
[h=2]Diagram Explanation[/h]
  • Step 1: We need to alter the wiring in the receptacle box to move hot, neutral, and ground up to the switch. To do this, we use the receptacle as a bridge for the hot and common wires. For both Romex’s in the receptacle box, the black wires are wired to the brass terminals, the white wires to the silver terminals, and the ground (copper) wires are nutted together and attached with a pigtail to the receptacle itself.
  • Step 2: Add an additional piece of Romex from the switch box to the overhead fixture. This Romex should be sufficient gauge for the current (12 gauge for 20 amp circuits, 14 gauge for 15 amp circuits). In our diagram we add 2-wire Romex with the intention that all of the voltage traveling to the overhead fixture will be switched. We could also add 3-wire Romex and have one switched hot wire, and one constant hot wire running to the overhead fixture. (This would be useful, for instance, if we were installing a fan with a separate fan and light control).
  • Step 3: Wire nut the neutral wires from both Romex’s in the switch box together. (This sends neutral up the wire to the fixture). Connect the black wires from each Romex in the switch box to the switch. (The black wire running up to the overhead fixture is now switched hot. Wire nut the ground wires together and add a pigtail to connect the switch.
 
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