Doorbell problems

Reply

  #1  
Old 10-07-16, 11:35 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Doorbell problems

Separated from: http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...placement.html

I stumbled across this post and have the exact same doorbell. I am actually trying to make it work but cannot find any instructions on how to wire it. I have two wires coming out of the wall with a white and a red wire in each. The red wires are together on #2 and one white wire is on #1 and one is on #3. I have a front and back doorbell. The lights come on but when I press them they don't make a sound. Is there anyplace I can get info on how to wire it so I can use this door chime?
 

Last edited by ray2047; 10-07-16 at 01:56 PM. Reason: Misspelling
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 10-07-16, 02:01 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Upvotes: 0
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
Does your door chime have a place for batteries as did the one in the thread you referenced? Has it ever worked? Are you trying to replace it or get it to work? If you are trying to get it to work and it uses batteries did you try new batteries?
 
  #3  
Old 10-18-16, 02:39 PM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 6
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
a closed loop ?

Hello folks,

Trying to figure out why my red and white wire energize the first ding on the chime, remain energized with a constant buzzing, until released with a dong when removing the red OR white wire.

For example:
Holding the white wire to TRANS, and connecting the red wire to FRONT or REAR gives you a ding, and buzzes as long as you hold it to FRONT or REAR until you release the red wire, and then you get a dong.

It looks like the doorbell pushbutton is somehow being bypassed. The red & white wire are measuring 16V, so I'm presuming that a transformer is in the loop somewhere.

Thanks!
 
  #4  
Old 10-18-16, 03:14 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Upvotes: 0
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
Disconnect the chime button and try again
 
  #5  
Old 10-18-16, 05:51 PM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 6
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hey Ray,

I've tried it over and over touching the white to the TRANS, and then the red to the REAR or FRONT or the Red wire to the TRANS and the white to the REAR or FRONT. Same result:

A ding, accompanied by a buzzing sound until either the red or white wire gets released from the contact with an accompanying dong.

So the current is going where it needs to (from what I can tell), but I'd much rather use the doorbell pushbutton

thanks
 
  #6  
Old 10-18-16, 06:20 PM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 6
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I'm sorry, Ray.
Did you mean disconnect the pushbutton?

Thanks
 
  #7  
Old 10-18-16, 06:42 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Upvotes: 0
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
Did you mean disconnect the pushbutton
Yes the chime push button but rereading what you are saying is the expected result. A chime unlike a door bell that will continue to ring will not continue to chime if power is not interrupted instead it will just hum.

You need to find the two wires from the chime push button.
 
  #8  
Old 10-20-16, 08:27 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 6
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hey Ray, and anyone else willing to help me solve this mystery

I followed your instructions and connected the PB wires to a 9V battery so I could trace which wire pair read the 9V in the kitchen where the one of the door chimes is.

The problem has since become a little more involved. I didn't want to disclose this right away, as it would have convoluted the issue.

Here's the issue, I'm trying to get the front door pushbutton to operate two door chimes (hopefully 3 but I'd like to get 2 working first)

I have:

One front lit doorbell (old fashioned red and white wire pair)

3 door chimes:

-one chime in the hall with a red, white, green wire (Ref pic Hall)

-one chime in the kitchen (Ref pic Kitchen), with multiple wire pairs -1 red & white which are dead ([0V at far right of pic]) another red and white (measuring 16 V), a third red & white pair with the 0 volt tag in the top center (just above the 16v pair) which connects to the pushbutton at the front door. A Red & Green & white wire (which has been cut and not used) measuring 26V which trigger the doorbell in the hall (pic hall).

-one chime at the backdoor 3 dead grey wires which read 0 current (pic Backdoor)

To test all of this out, I'm using a regular door chime with the TRANS, FRONT, and REAR contactors.

I'm presuming that there are transformers in this loop (probably up in the attic) which are supplying the 26V and 16V.

SO:

I have 3 wire pairs which need to be connected to this kitchen doorchime,

red and white (that go to front door pushbutton) 0V
red and white (that come into the kitchen) 16V
red and green (that go to hallway chime) 26V

pic 1 = kitchen
pic 2 = hall
pic 3 = backdoor

Thanks for reading!
 
Attached Images    

Last edited by Rhetro; 10-20-16 at 08:47 AM.
  #9  
Old 10-20-16, 10:46 AM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern NJ - USA
Posts: 51,892
Received 257 Votes on 242 Posts
It's pretty hard to follow what you have there.

The one location has three gray wires and no power. This sounds like a location you won't be using unless you can find where the gray wires go to. It's obvious they don't appear at the other two locations.

You need to see if the one three wire cable at the hall chime goes to the kitchen.

You must run this entire system on one large transformer. There cannot be more than one connected.
 
  #10  
Old 10-20-16, 11:33 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 6
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks, Pjmax (great name!)

I'm so sorry for the confusion - I'm just not very good at explaining such things.
But thanks for your patience!

I can check that three wire (green, red and white) you're talking about.
And yes, I found it odd that I'm getting both 16V and 26V.

I did crawl up into the attic and could NOT find the gray wires.

But first things first:
per your instruction, I'll check for the 3 wire continuity from the hall to the kitchen and report back!

Thanks again, Pj!
I really appreciate it
 
  #11  
Old 10-21-16, 06:13 AM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 274
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
This thread is a little confusing, and seems to be a mix of several problems.
Wikipedia has some nice descriptions and pictures here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doorbell
Different gongs has different markings, and even different electromechanical solutions, they are not always playing together. 2 or more bells or gongs activated of the same button may sometimes make it difficult. (but not impossible) Gongs may have a need of installation in the right angle to work, they will usually work well on a flat table. Gongs with different wiring for front and back-door will often hit both gongs when front door is ringing, but one one when the rear is used. To get the "ding dong", it is important to release the button after "ding".

The old 4 batteries gongs was made for approx 6V DC and if it is four terminals as pictured [ATTACH=CONFIG]72170[/ATTACH]often the 2 and 3 are the gong, the 0 and 4 are connected to the button and the batteries will form the rest of the circuit. (Sometimes 2-3 and 0-4 are switched, and the numbering may be pretty random.) To identify The 2 to the gong look for tiny brown or red wires going to the gong motor. (ore measure just a few ohms) You may even test with a battery. It is no standard for color codes, and that may often be confusing.

dsk
 
Attached Images  
  #12  
Old 10-21-16, 07:45 AM
ray2047's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Upvotes: 0
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
Also you can not operate three chimes on the usual chime transformer. The VA output is too low. You would need a higher volt/amp transformer.

To keep it simple for now just try to get one chime working.
 
  #13  
Old 10-21-16, 12:19 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 274
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
The very first telephone systems used pretty lo ohm ringers, sometimes wired in series. (pre 1890) And the ringer with lowest ohmic value was located at the most remote position. It is good reasons for abandoning that system, but here it could be interesting to test with the gongs. I can not see any reason not to try, except for the risk of spending time without getting it to work.

As Ray says, it is probably to little power from the transformer to ring all of them at the time, but..

At last, I use 4 AA batteries for my gong here, and the batteries lasts for at least 5 years. (I use lo cost IKEA batteries)

dsk
 
  #14  
Old 10-24-16, 09:24 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 6
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hey Pj,

It looks like the red/green/white wire group in the hall is the same red/green/white wire group in the kitchen (26V). However, in the kitchen the white wire has been cut back, and doesn't connect to anything. However, the white wire in the hall IS being used in the hallway chime.

It looks like I'm going to have to back into the attic ;\
There's just NOT enough information.

Is it safe to say, that there are 2 transformers in this loop?

one at 16V
the other at 26V

?

Thanks
 
  #15  
Old 10-24-16, 10:49 AM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 274
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
It may be 2 separate transformers, or it may be one with several different voltages. Ill guess it had been nice to locate the transformer(s). Maybe they are properly marked. Regarding colors so may it be someone who has used whatever thy have, and the colors may change on their way from A to B.

Doorbells and gongs are not very sensitive to a little over voltage, but I will suggest to tak a look at the rated voltage at the different gongs, and put the one rated for highest voltage on the highest voltage transformer, and on the longest run. If you are running 2 or more on the same button(s) the one with the longest run should probably be the one who need the lowest voltage.

In addition to this the longer run, and lower voltage the greater need for better conductors, unused conductors may be run in parallel to the used one.

Pretty many thing to consider, but not always needed.

To give you the best help we can here a sketch and all available information may help.

Enclosed, an example, the wires could be numbered, or color-coded, but it is important to be able to follow them. Maybe not all 3 gongs has 2 hammers, so they may only give signal from either front or rear.
Name:  door.jpg
Views: 79
Size:  22.5 KB

dsk
 

Last edited by d_s_k; 10-24-16 at 11:09 AM. Reason: Adding sketch
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: