Can I wire in an oven to this sub panel?

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Old 02-21-17, 12:11 PM
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Can I wire in an oven to this sub panel?

I've got a 200 amp main panel and this 100 amp sub panel. I've done a lot of electrical work on my house, but mostly ceiling fans/lights/new outlets, etc.

I'm looking to add an electric oven. Actually the oven we are looking at is dual fuel, gas top and electric oven. We have a propane supply to where the oven is going, but only a 110v receptacle.

For the specs on the oven, it says "120/240 Volt 60Hz. 40 Amp"

So I am guessing I will need to run a new 40 amp line. The question is, can I do it from a sub panel in the basement? There is more room on it and it would be a more convenient installation.

Attached is a picture of the sub-panel. The 40 amp breaker on the top right is for an A/C unit. The 30 amp below it is not label, and I'm not sure what its purpose is but it's been off since we have owned the house. The last 30 amp on the right is for the pump on a pool. On the left is just outlets and lights that we hardly use.

Where do I start to see if I can put another 40 amp line in this box? I'll probably call an electrician for it, but wanted to get a sense of what I'm in for before talking to him.

Thanks
 
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Old 02-21-17, 12:58 PM
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You do not have space for another two pole breaker but if the 30 amp is not used you may be able to put the 40 there. Post a picture of the pasnel with the cover off.

Often a 30 amp two pole breaker is for a water heater. Is your WH propane? Could there have at one time been an electric water heater?
 
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Old 02-21-17, 01:32 PM
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Sorry I probably should have mentioned that. Our home/hot water is heated by an oil boiler. I'll take the panel off and snap a pic sometime this evening.
 
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Old 02-21-17, 04:33 PM
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Be sure to check the size of the breaker feeding that sub panel. Just because it has a 100 amp main doesn't mean it is fed with a 100 amp feeder.
 
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Old 02-23-17, 11:52 AM
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Thanks to all for the replies. Did some more digging.

The size of the breaker feeding the sub panel is 100 amp (attached picture).

I dug around my basement. The 30 amp with no label (the breaker in the middle) ended up in a plug! I wonder if they were maybe using it for a generator? I don't have experience hooking a generator up in to a house, but I would expect it to be a little more than just a normal breaker.

Like I said that breaker has always been off since we have owned the home. And there was some tape over it, but I could never make out what it said.

See attached pictures for what I found. Generator hook up or what?
 
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Old 02-23-17, 12:27 PM
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Yes, probably for a generator hook up done by a suicidal idiot. That is extremely dangerous and needs to be immediately disconnected at the panel and removed from the panel.

The exposed prongs could be lethal if touched when the breaker is on. A generator setup can not be used without a an interlock or other means to automatically prevent feeding power to the electric line from the electric company. Feeding power to the incoming electric line can and has killed workers. Remove now.
 
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Old 02-23-17, 01:31 PM
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Thanks for your help, I disconnected it and removed the breaker. Looks burnt behind it.

For the oven, under the electrical installation part it says:

"Use only 3-conductor or 4-conductor CSA/UL listed range cord rated at 30 amps with 250 V minimum and provided with ring terminals. These cords should be provided with strain relief or conduit connector"

But in the specs it says "Power Requirements: 120/240 Volt 60Hz. 40 Amp"

So I am guessing I am OK with a 40 amp breaker... what gauge wire should I use with that? Also why do a 3 cord vs 4 cord?
 
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Old 02-23-17, 02:05 PM
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Yes use a 40A breaker with #8-3/g copper cable. A three wire circuit is for compatibility with ungrounded grandfathered circuits in older house. All new or modified range circuits must be installed with 4 conductors using the NEMA 14-50 receptacle and corresponding prefab range cord. You may need to remove a bonding wire or strap inside the range wiring compartment to configure for 4 wire operation. Consult the manufacturer manual.
 
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Old 02-23-17, 02:45 PM
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Looks burnt behind it.
Are you saying the bus bars are burnt. If so post a picture of that.
 
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Old 02-23-17, 03:11 PM
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Are you saying the bus bars are burnt. If so post a picture of that.
You can see it in the last picture I posted
 
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Old 02-23-17, 04:36 PM
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Is this what you mean?

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Edit: I retract my original answer. Ben is the pro. Go with his advice.
 

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Old 02-23-17, 05:02 PM
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Yes that was it. Not sure if that is something to be concerned about, but doesn't sound like it's too bad.

When I get the 40 amp breaker, do I need to use the same brand as the others, or are all systems compatible? Also attached is a picture of the whole panel. This was prior to disconnecting the suicide generator cable. They had the black and white in the 30 amp breaker but see where the ground is going? In the bus just above the breakers on the right. Is that bus for neutrals like on the other side?

Thanks again for help.
 
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Old 02-24-17, 11:21 AM
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That burned breaker and bus bar looks like it could be bad news. Can you kill the main, carefully pull all of the breakers out around the bad area and get some good photos? It's possible that stab is ruined and perhaps the whole bus bar which would require panel replacement.

The brand and style of breaker must match the allowed breaker list on the panel label. In your case it will be only a SquareD breaker as they do not have cross compatibility with other brands.
 
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Old 02-25-17, 12:33 PM
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That burned breaker and bus bar looks like it could be bad news. Can you kill the main, carefully pull all of the breakers out around the bad area and get some good photos? It's possible that stab is ruined and perhaps the whole bus bar which would require panel replacement.
I'll do that within the next couple of days, and get some pictures up.

This is the breaker I was going to get:
Square D QO 40 Amp Two-Pole Circuit Breaker-QO240CP - The Home Depot

Should be good with that, right?

Thanks for your help!! I'll post again tomorrow or the next day.
 
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Old 02-25-17, 01:55 PM
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That burned breaker and bus bar looks like it could be bad news.
Square D loadcenters and breakers carry a lifetime warranty. You might get some good pictures of the burnt busbar and discuss panel replacement directly with Square D. They'll eventually direct you to one of their distributors.
 
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Old 02-25-17, 02:37 PM
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What with the suicide connection for a generator it makes you wonder if they tried to back feed the whole house through that breaker.
 
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Old 03-05-17, 06:59 PM
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That burned breaker and bus bar looks like it could be bad news. Can you kill the main, carefully pull all of the breakers out around the bad area and get some good photos? It's possible that stab is ruined and perhaps the whole bus bar which would require panel replacement.
Here are some updated pictures including one of the burnt area. Finished the project up and everything appears to be working. I don't have the oven installed yet, though.

Having issue with file uploader, can only manage these two pictures.
 
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