Fuse panels

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Old 03-14-17, 04:27 PM
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Fuse panels

Hi everybody
I come to this forum looking for help with installing 230V in my detached garage for compressor and clothes dryer and ad 4 more 115V outlets. There is all ready 115 V . I want to make a mini apartment upstairs in the garage to.
This is the existing fuse panel . Do I have to replace it ?
Jerry
 
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Old 03-14-17, 04:34 PM
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Nominal voltages in the US are 120v and 240 volts. Since the garage is detached you will have to abandon this set up and run the appropriately sized 4 wire cable from a breaker in your main panel and use a main breaker in the upper two left slots with the proper hold down clamps. You will also need to isolate the grounding wires from the neutrals and run two grounding rods in the ground outside with a #6 solid copper grounding conductor.

In addition we don't know what part of NY you are from. If NYC, then you won't be able to do this as a DIY project, anyway, as the rules are too strict.
 
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Old 03-14-17, 04:43 PM
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This is the existing fuse panel
That is not a fuse panel. It is a breaker panel.
 
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Old 03-14-17, 04:44 PM
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Long Island NY
and yes 120 / 240
 
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Old 03-14-17, 04:47 PM
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So what I need to purchase?
 
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Old 03-14-17, 05:12 PM
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You will need to do a load calculation to determine your needs. Probably a 100 amp feed to a 20 or 32 space 100 amp main breaker panel.breaker panel. If 100 feet or less THWN copper two #3 (or #2) black, one #3 (or#2) white, and one #6 green. In a 1" or larger PVC conduit.

You can Google electric load calculator. Here is one http://wireyourownhouse.com/tools/housecalc.html

If the existing feed is abandoned the current panel could be used as a subpanel so wiring in it wouldn't have to be moved.
 
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Old 03-14-17, 05:12 PM
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here is the main panel at home with the visible white wire going to the garage
 
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Old 03-14-17, 05:17 PM
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That looks like 10/3 w/g NM'b cable which means that there would be a 2P30A circuit in the main panel feeding the garage panel.

You would need to up size that.
Do you know how it gets from the main panel to to the sub panel ?
 
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Old 03-14-17, 05:20 PM
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I forgot to add this wire is underground, and the new one will be also
 
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Old 03-14-17, 05:27 PM
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Direct burial..... conduit ?

You'll be at least doubling the size of the conductors requiring a larger conduit.
 
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Old 03-14-17, 05:33 PM
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In my post I suggest individual THWN wires because pulling cable in conduit is much harder.

Side not the cable currently going to the garage is not code compliant and needs to be replaced any way. That is NM and not intended for wet location such as buried conduit.

You could save some money by using aluminum direct burial mobile home cable. 2/0-2/0-1-4 MHC would be more than enough. In that case conduit is optional.
 
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Old 03-14-17, 05:36 PM
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I don't know what that means but i want to do it right ,up to codes by my self then hire electrician to check it over and do the final step. The garage has no CO yet...
 
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Old 03-14-17, 05:50 PM
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Electricians don't like to okay other people's work because it is their license on the line. Permits will need to be pulled for the electric. You may not even be able to pull a permit. Best to hire an electrician. This is not a beginner level job and that you don't understand me probably means you're a beginner.
I don't know what that means
Be specific and we will try to answer your individual questions.
 
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Old 03-14-17, 05:55 PM
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Old 03-14-17, 06:04 PM
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Yes, that panel will work. You will need to buy a ground bar and add it to the panel.
 
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Old 03-14-17, 06:33 PM
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ok
now let's go to beginning. What about wires going to the home panel and what about the 200 panel its self (pictures below) . Do they need upgrades?
 
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Old 03-14-17, 07:48 PM
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What about wires going to the home panel
The cable not wires going there as I wrote previously is not code compliant and needs to be replaced.
I want to make a mini apartment upstairs in the garage to.
A 100 amp panel is usually required for a residence so you need to abandon the existing panel and run either direct burial cable such as aluminum mobile home cable or individual copper conductors such as THWN in conduit. If you use conduit and THWN the conduit needs to be at least 1" so the existing conduit won't work. While a bit over size here is a direct burial cable you could use: https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/...der-cable.html

Your main panel appears to be full but you would be removing the existing breaker to the garage so you can use that same spot for your new 100 amp breaker.
 
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Old 03-15-17, 03:58 AM
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ray
I was asking about cable from local power grid to main fuse breaker. And the 200A fuse panel . Do they require any changes?
 
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Old 03-15-17, 04:03 AM
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No changes ahead of the panel. Only the wires/cable from your panel to the garage need to be upgraded. The 10-3 is not adequate for the load. Run the cable/wires suggested in conduit from your panel to the garage and install the 100 amp panel in the garage.
 
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Old 03-15-17, 07:29 AM
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The OP already has 240v service in the sub panel. Breakers 5 and 7 show that (two hot legs). That cable at the main panel looks to be like SER#2/3 with ground but not sure from just the picture. The cable going from the main to the sub may go through conduit already.

Also Jarek7 the panel you have selected only has 20 spaces (up to 40 if all tandems). You said this will feed the garage and upstairs apartment. You need to determine before selecting this panel how many 240v circuits you will need total running off that sub panel as they will take two breaker positions each of the 20 available limiting the available 120v circuits. How many 120v/240v and 240v appliances will you be running. You said air compressor already. Will the apartment have an electric stove, electric hot water heater, electric dryer etc. These require 2 breaker positions. The other suggestion may be to install a disconnect in the garage and then run a sub off the disconnect. This way the power can be shut off in the garage and the sub panel will be dead all together allowing someone to work on it more safely (even if someone turned the breaker in the house panel back on the sub panel in the garage will still not have power); the disconnect would take care of that.

As ray2047 suggested a load calculation is very important before you just decide on a panel.
 
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Old 03-15-17, 10:43 AM
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I think I will end up doing just a studio not full apartment . Not sure yet...
 
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Old 03-15-17, 04:24 PM
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Please help me to identify this cable going underground from Main fuse breaker panel to detached garage fuse breaker. It's hard to read the pressed signs on it . It looks like :

GROUND FLEX TYPE NM-B 600 VOLTS 6/3 WIT

I was told by a previous owner, this garage was built with the thought of making a studio / apartment upstairs and renting it.
 
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Old 03-15-17, 04:43 PM
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I think it is up to 55AMPS
 
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Old 03-15-17, 05:21 PM
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GROUND FLEX TYPE NM-B 600 VOLTS 6/3 WIT
As previously written NM-b can not be used in buried conduit. NM-b is for dry locations only. Buried conduit is a wet location. Even if the cable was large enough it must be replaced because it is not code compliant and will eventually probably short out.

Terminology: "Main fuse breaker panel" no such thing. It is a breaker panel. There are no fuses.
 
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Old 03-16-17, 05:29 AM
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what if MN-B is in some pipe? Has no contact with ground...
 
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Old 03-16-17, 06:18 AM
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Pipe-conduit; same thing. The cable is not rated for damp/wet locations. You can get condensation in conduit-hence damp location. The cable/insulation is not rated for that type of environment.
 
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Old 03-16-17, 09:10 AM
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From post #24:
As previously written NM-b can not be used in buried conduit. NM-b is for dry locations only. Buried conduit is a wet location.
As repeatedly said it is wrong. The previous owner didn't know what he was doing or hired someone who didn't. Or if you or lucky it was done so long ago it wasn't a code violation. Are you sure the garage construction was even permitted? If not getting your CO could be difficult.
 
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Old 03-16-17, 10:42 AM
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I know garage has no co yet
 
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Old 03-16-17, 10:46 AM
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The cable has a sign on it GROUND. Why?
 
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Old 03-16-17, 11:20 AM
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The cable has a sign on it GROUND.
If you mean printed on it that means it includes a ground wire.
 
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Old 03-16-17, 02:54 PM
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Jarek7: "The cable has a sign on it GROUND. Why?"
Having "stamped" ground on the conductor insulation has nothing to do with it being "buried" (in-ground) rated. These are two totally separate things.
 
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Old 03-16-17, 03:14 PM
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I think first we need to establish the path of the existing feeder cable as I'm not sure that has been completely answered. Where does the existing 6-3 cable exit the house and where does it enter the garage? Is there a junction box when it goes underground? Is there a conduit underground? Approximately how long is this run total? Can you post a picture of the inside of the garage subpanel with the cover off? Can you post pictures of the feeder cable where it enters and exits the ground?
 
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Old 03-16-17, 03:37 PM
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Ben makes good points I overlooked. Apologies if I misinformed you. Please follow Ben's instruction in post #32.
 
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Old 03-17-17, 06:26 PM
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Digging out the old cable turnout to be much more difficult than expected. I have a huge wooden terrace behind the house, and the cable is underneath. Deck is about two feet above the ground, so I'll have to dig lying down on the ground. I think it is inpossible ...
 
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Old 03-17-17, 06:37 PM
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If it is in conduit, why are you digging? Post pictures of any junction boxes and the garage panel, opened
 
 

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