Quick outlet grounding question

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  #1  
Old 03-18-17, 10:18 AM
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Quick outlet grounding question

Hi folks, just a quick question regarding grounding a new outlet. The current wiring has the bare copper grounding wire going around the green screw on the outlet and then it connects to the metal box with a little clip. This is an old outlet and box. Can I just remove the wire from the box and just have it hooked up to the green screw like normal?

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Old 03-18-17, 10:54 AM
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Both the metal box and the receptacle must have a ground connection, except for one special case.

If you have a self-grounding receptacle (unlikely if it is an older receptacle) then you can just run the ground to the metal box, and the receptacle will be grounded by the box.

Is there some reason you want or need to eliminate one of the ground connections?
 
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Old 03-18-17, 11:24 AM
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If I had to guess, he's probably replacing the outlet and the tail from the box to the outlet is now too short.

If that's the case, you can get little green pigtails at Home Depot that have a ring terminal with captive screw at one end and a spade at the other. Simply remove the screw from the box, and screw the new pigtail into that hole, making sure the existing ground is hooked underneath it. Then hook the spade up to the ground on the outlet.

 
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Old 03-18-17, 12:40 PM
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Sorry, forgot to mention that piece. I'm replacing the outlets because the old ones were bad and plugs would fall out of them. Crap, so you're saying I should keep it the same way (with the box and the outlet grounded)? I'm assuming that's because the box is metal, right? Would it be different if the box was the plastic type? Of the four outlets that I'm replacing (all four have metal boxes) maybe two of them have both grounded, and two of them just have the outlets grounded. The reason I say crap is because I had already cut the wire off the box and just tied it to the outlet. But I can definitely go back and redo them.

As for self-grounding outlets, I'm not sure that they are. I bought a 10-pack of tamper resistant outlets from Home Depot. Here's the link. Leviton 15 Amp Tamper-Resistant Duplex Outlet, White (10-Pack) M22-T5320-WMP at The Home Depot - Mobile

Taz420, as for your comment about "remove the screw from the box", it's not a screw in this case. It's a little clip that the wire goes under and the clip slides onto the box.
 
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Old 03-18-17, 02:01 PM
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New outlets should be self grounding. Check ground screw and see if attached to mount. But easy enough to add a ground to box.
 
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Old 03-18-17, 02:23 PM
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Yeah I just noticed that when I re-read it. You can still use those pigtails, because all metal boxes will have a screw hole in the back which that screw will fit into (the screw is self-tapping, so it will fit even if it's not pre-threaded). The ground is required to go to the box FIRST (or be done like your originals - with the wire "looped" through the ground screw and then clipped to the box), so that the ground integrity is maintained even when the receptacle is removed.
 
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Old 03-18-17, 04:27 PM
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Here's a pic of the outlet. Can't tell if it's self grounding or not. Under the specifications on the website it says "Grounding: ungrounded".

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Old 03-18-17, 04:32 PM
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Got a ohm meter? Should show a circuit when ground screw and mount tabs.
 
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Old 03-18-17, 05:50 PM
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Ibpooks wrote:
Chandler answered correctly in the first reply. The metal box is the legal ground. If you use self-grounding receptacles, then the mounting screw picks up the ground from the box. For regular receptacles, you need to run a pigtail from the ground screw on the receptacle to a ground screw on the box. Ideally the ground screw should be a tapped, 10-32, green, hex head screw. In older homes, most any screw in the box including the clamps was used as a ground screw.

self-grounding receptacle has copper clips on the mounting screw:
See: http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...ounding.html#b
 
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Old 03-19-17, 07:59 AM
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Would you mind clarifying the following statement from above?

"The ground is required to go to the box FIRST (or be done like your originals - with the wire "looped" through the ground screw and then clipped to the box)"

If I'm just going to use the existing ground wire, and not use the additional pigtail from Home Depot just yet, do I loop around the outlet's ground screw first and then go to the box? Or do I wrap it around the box's screw first and then go to the outlet's screw?

Thanks again guys!
 
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Old 03-19-17, 08:09 AM
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This outlet had enough ground wire to go to the outlet first then to the box. Here's a picture of what I did. Look OK to you? I probably won't be as lucky with the other outlets.

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Old 03-19-17, 08:49 AM
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OK, scratch that. I couldn't push the outlet in because I kept hitting the grounding screw on the box. So I had to move the screw to the back of the box.
 
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Old 03-19-17, 09:17 AM
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It's easier with the screw in the back of the box.
Wrap the incoming ground wire around the screw and that leaves a tail for the receptacle.
 
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Old 03-19-17, 09:31 AM
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According to what Ray said below, I'm supposed to go to the receptacle first and then to the box. Does it make a difference?
 
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Old 03-19-17, 09:54 AM
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The box Ned's to be grounded regardless of the presence of a device. Wrap around the ground screw in the box and then go to the device with the tail.
 
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Old 03-19-17, 10:01 AM
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There is no particular order.
It's just easier to go to the box first and that connection remains permanently connected.
 
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Old 03-19-17, 06:43 PM
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Sorry, one more follow-up. The next outlet I did had two ground wires. So I wire-nutted them together, along with a third spare wire. I guess that's a pigtail right? Then I took the end of that third spare wire, went around the outlet's ground screw, then to the box's ground screw. Can you confirm that this was ok to do it this way?
 
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Old 03-19-17, 06:51 PM
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Yes that was fine. .
 
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Old 03-20-17, 10:40 AM
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One more :-)

The two ground wires are one size (maybe 14 way?), and the extension wire I'm using is a little bigger, maybe 12? Is it ok to put the three of those wires in one (oranges) nut?
 
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Old 03-20-17, 10:50 AM
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If the wire nut fits it is okay. Note the extension wire should be bare or green.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 03-20-17 at 05:58 PM.
  #21  
Old 03-20-17, 05:49 PM
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Orange nuts are only suitable for up to three #14 wires. If the tails are #12, you need the yellow ones. I prefer the WingNuts over the cap style because they are a lot easier to torque down.
 
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Old 03-20-17, 07:32 PM
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It seemed to fit ok with the two 14s and the one 12.

Taz, By the way, I checked out those pigtails at Home Depot that you mentioned. The only difference is that they had the geeen screw on one side with the wire wrapped around it, but the other end was just a stripped wire and not the spade end like the picture down below. I didn't wind up buying them, but I think I would have if they had the spade end.
 
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Old 03-20-17, 07:37 PM
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Since you were only combining ground wires.... the 73B (orange is ok).
It wouldn't have worked if you had three insulated wires.
 
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Old 03-20-17, 08:25 PM
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You could also have used a wire nut with pigtail.

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