EMT sleeve for romex in unfinished basement

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Old 03-22-17, 10:42 AM
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EMT sleeve for romex in unfinished basement

Hey guys,

Sry if this is the millionth time this has been asked, but I searched and couldn't find an actual answer.

I have an unfinished basement. I'm running wire for outlets. I know to staple along joists, and run through holes in the joists to go the other way... Also I know that I cant just run romex down the wall to the outlets, it has to be protected.

My question is this:

How do I accomplish running wire to several outlets along the perimeter? I'd like to just run the wire along the joists, drop down through emt to each metal box (outlet) and back up and across to the next one. The problem I've ran into when checking on code for this, is people saying I can't run romex through conduit, or saying I'd need IMO huge conduit just to run 2 romex. How am I supposed to protect it without conduit? The runs in the conduit would be about 3-4' long, down a concrete block wall, would I would secure with tapcons etc. I though this was the common way to do it?

The second part of my question:
If I CAN do it that way, what size of EMT do I need on the short runs down the wall, so that it's ok to run romex down and back up (to the next outlet) in the same conduit (12/2 romex)? Or should I put a junction box for each outlet and only run one wire down?

People have said that 1/2' EMT is only ok for one 12/2 romex and only if the conduit isn't connected to boxes on both ends, some people are saying that even having a box at ONE end "completes conduit" and I'd have to go by the fill% deal. I was under the impression that a 3' or 4' piece of EMT what standard to protect wires in my situation? And also I didn't think I should have to use HUGE emt for 2x 12/2 wires in that short of a run. Am I way off? It seems like every thread I find about this has a different answer lol

Thanks guys
Brian
 
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Old 03-22-17, 11:18 AM
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You can sleeve NM in conduit for protection. The conduit fill limits do not apply to conduit sleeves, not connected on both ends to a box. Use a size of EMT that the two pieces of 12/2 NM will loosely fit into. I believe 3/4" will work.

Edit: I did the number crunching and two #12/2 NM will need 1" EMT to meet fill requirement if connected to a box. That's saying I didn't make a math mistake.
 
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Old 03-22-17, 11:20 AM
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Two pieces of 12-2 NM-b will fit in 3/4" EMT sleeve.
Trying to keep them from twisting makes them go in easier.
 
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Old 03-22-17, 12:38 PM
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@pattenp - In your second answer you mentioned it needs 1" to meet fill requirements if connected to a box, but in your earlier answer you stated it needed boxes on BOTH ends to be deemed not a "sleeve".

This is the type of confusion I've been seeing while looking for an answer to this. Is EMT connected to a box (on one end only) a sleeve or not? Do I have to meet EMT fill requirements just to run 3-4' of wire down a unfinished block basement wall to protect it?

To clarify, I'm talking about only the NM wire from the joist (open end of conduit) down to a handy box, and back up to the joists (to continue to the next outlet etc). Totaling two 12/2 romex in the conduit.

@Pjmax - Yes it'll fit, but I'm trying to meet code in Illinois...
 
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Old 03-22-17, 01:07 PM
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I suppose like most things, making a determination like that is up to your local inspector. However my experience is that conduit connected to a box at only one end would be considered a sleeve. For what it's worth, I have run two 12-2 cable through a 3/4 EMT sleeve many, many times with no trouble.

BTW, don't use a handy box. It is not big enough for a device and two cables. Instead use a 4x4x1.5 steel box with a raised cover.

You also need a romex fitting or a bushing on the raw end of the EMT to prevent the cable from getting cut. Arlington Industries makes a drive-on plastic bushing specifically for this purpose if you can find them.
 
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Old 03-22-17, 02:13 PM
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Read my response again. I said NOT connected to a box on both ends. I think you may have seen my post where I miss typed and had to correct some wrong wording.
 
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Old 03-22-17, 02:34 PM
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You could shoot a 2x4 to the wall and staple the 12/2's to that and mount the 4sq to it, maybe be easier than bending box offsets if your not familiar with bending.
Just a thought.
Geo
 
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Old 03-22-17, 04:25 PM
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@ibpooks- thanks for the tip on the handybox (or lack of). I'll get bigger boxes. i have some bushings for the open ends >_>b

@pattenp- I did.

"The conduit fill limits do not apply to conduit sleeves, not connected on both ends to a box."

"two #12/2 NM will need 1" EMT to meet fill requirement if connected to a box". (after you edited)

My comment was based on the fact that "connected on both ends to a box" and "connected to a box" are not one and the same. Hence my confusion. I apologize. Wording in these situations can be frustrating. So you ARE saying that the fill requirements do not apply when only ONE end is connected to a box?

@Geo Thx, I though about it but the whole 2x4 thing isn't my cup of tea on block walls.
 
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Old 03-22-17, 05:07 PM
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So you ARE saying that the fill requirements do not apply when only ONE end is connected to a box?
No. My understanding is that both ends of the conduit need to be left open to not be subject to the conduit fill requirements. That is what I meant by saying "not connected on both ends to a box". As ibpooks said it is interpreted differently by different people as to what is a sleeve and when the conduit fill requirements apply and to ask your local inspector.
 
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Old 03-22-17, 06:35 PM
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IMO a sleeve can be connected to a box on one end and not need to follow the fill rules. I have never been called on it.
 
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Old 03-23-17, 08:26 AM
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Protected Circuit

You could shoot a 2x4 to the wall and staple the 12/2's to that and mount the 4sq to it, maybe be easier than bending box offsets if your not familiar with bending.
Just a thought.
Cable would not be protected using this method.
 
 

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