Electric Range Wiring

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Old 04-08-17, 07:31 PM
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Electric Range Wiring

Hello all, I am converting an old drop in electric range with a free standing range. The old drop in range was hard wired and while disconnecting the wires I made the dumb mistake of not paying attention to what wires went where. I have two 120v hots and a ground coming from my wall. How would I go about wiring this with a neutral to a 50 amp 3 pole, 4 wire plug? And help would be greatly appreciated!
 
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Old 04-08-17, 07:43 PM
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I have two 120v hots and a ground coming from my wall.
No, you have the two legs of the 240 volts your house is supplied with and probably what was a combined neutral/ground under old code.
  • If this is cable and the ground/neutral is bare you need to run new cable.
  • If this is individual conductors in continuous metal conduit and what you are calling ground has white insulation you can install a 4-wire receptacle.
  • If this is cable with red, black and white wires you can install a 3-wire receptacle and convert the stove to 3-wire or if you want the safety of four wire install new cable.
 
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Old 04-08-17, 08:52 PM
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Sounds like the old drop in was 240 volts only. If so a new cable will be needed. Also many drop ins were only 30 amps so the wires would be too small.
 
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Old 04-08-17, 09:06 PM
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Coming out of the wall I have a red/black, black and a bare twisted wire which I assume was the ground. Whoever installed it had the old drop in range wired to have a red, black, white and a ground. Would I still need to run another wire if I wired it the same way they did? Also, I'm pretty sure the circuit breaker is 50 amps (I will have to double check tomorrow) so wouldn't that mean the wires would be sufficient?
 
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Old 04-08-17, 09:54 PM
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Coming out of the wall I have a red/black, black and a bare twisted wire which I assume was the ground.
Sounds like old SE cable. No longer code compliant. Best to run new cable.
Would I still need to run another wire if I wired it the same way they did?
You can't just run a new wire. If it isn't conduit. You need a new cable to meet current code. You could get it to "work" but it might not pass inspection.*
I'm pretty sure the circuit breaker is 50 amps (I will have to double check tomorrow) so wouldn't that mean the wires would be sufficient?
Not necessarily. Over fused circuits aren't unheard of.

*Current code doesn't allow a bare neutral which essentially is what you have. If it is cable you can't just add a wire because code requires all conductors in the same sheath.
 
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Old 04-09-17, 08:25 AM
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That doesn't sound like good news to me. What gauge wire is retired for 50 amps? Sorry for all the novice questions. Electrical work is definitely me weak stop. I'll probably have to hire an electrician. Thanks for the info.
 
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Old 04-09-17, 11:26 AM
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You'd be required to run 6-3 w/ground NM cable.
 
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Old 04-09-17, 05:51 PM
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What gauge wire is retired for 50 amps?
Have you checked the installation instructions for the new range? Most new ranges require a 40 amp circuit which would only require 8-3 NM-B cable. A 50 amp range receptacle can still be used, but just because the receptacle is rated at 50 amps doesn't mean the circuit has to be 50 amps.
 
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Old 04-09-17, 08:45 PM
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I have spoken with a few people and they seem to think using the ground in place of a neutral is fine. Is there any issue with this?

To better clarify, this is what is coming out of my wall: http://i.imgur.com/NccErfQ.jpg

And this is what I'm wanting to wire it to: http://i.imgur.com/20rx5PU.jpg
 
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Old 04-09-17, 08:53 PM
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You cannot put neutral current on the ground. Your "sources" are mistaken.
 
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Old 04-09-17, 09:15 PM
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You cannot put neutral current on the ground. Your "sources" are mistaken.
I updated my previous post with pictures. Can you please verify that I can not connect it this way. Thanks
 
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Old 04-09-17, 09:28 PM
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You don't have an insulated wire for neutral.
 
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Old 04-09-17, 09:34 PM
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You don't have an insulated wire for neutral.
Why is it that I am finding wiring diagrams of the same outlet with it wired with 2 hots and a ground and also 2 hots and a neutral? What's the difference?
 
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Old 04-09-17, 09:39 PM
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A lot of outdated info on the net. Three wire feeds have not been code compliant because of safety issues. At one time the bare ground of SE cable could be used as a neutral. It is always best and safest to install according to modern code.
 
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Old 04-09-17, 09:53 PM
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Originally most appliances were designed to work on 240vac only. They required two hot legs for the 240v power and cabinet ground for safety.

Then they started adding 120vac components to the appliances. The appliances were then called 120/240v. They require the two hots for 240v, a neutral for the 120v components and a ground for the cabinet.

Since the ground and neutral connect to the same place in the panel.... everyone thought that tying the ground and neutral together at the appliance was acceptable.

The bad thing about that is that if the neutral/ground wire opens up..... the appliance cabinet becomes 120vac. If you were to touch the stove and the fridge or the stove and the sink..... you could be electrocuted.

People roll the dice and still use one wire to carry neutral and ground. That could prove to be a deadly decision. We've had members come here and ask how it's possible to get a shock from their 120/240v appliance.

You can connect your appliance as you see fit. We must advise based on the electrical codes.
 
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Old 04-14-17, 10:36 AM
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To better clarify, this is what is coming out of my wall: http://i.imgur.com/NccErfQ.jpg
That is aluminum service entrance cable with a bare neutral and it was allowed for a 3-wire 120/240 volt 3-wire range circuit till the code changed in 1996. You can probably still use it, but if there were a way to replace it I certainly would.
.
 
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