Electrical service/main breaker size questions
#1
05-31-17, 04:46 AM
Electrical service/main breaker size questions
Good morning, I have a house that I have inherited a few years back, it was a camp that was converted to year round living many years ago. I am currently adding an addition which will require more power which has led me to start assessing my current breaker box and I feel it is time to replace it.
I was always under the impression that you either had 100 or 200 amp service but this panel had 120 amps on the tag. I do not have a conventional box with a main breaker to check but I do have a shut off on my service pole; when I checked that last night there was no breaker at the shut off. After a closer inspection of my panel I see I have the power coming in and connecting to the distribution board at the bottom, then I have leads coming out from the top of the board and into a 60amp breaker on the board. I assume this is acting as my main breaker but does this mean I essentially only have a 60amp service? I could not read what was on my service wire but it is copper; is there anyway I can check and be sure? I unfortunately do not have the extra money to pay an electrician to replace my panel, would my electrical inspector be able to tell? I have added a picture of my panel.
I was always under the impression that you either had 100 or 200 amp service but this panel had 120 amps on the tag. I do not have a conventional box with a main breaker to check but I do have a shut off on my service pole; when I checked that last night there was no breaker at the shut off. After a closer inspection of my panel I see I have the power coming in and connecting to the distribution board at the bottom, then I have leads coming out from the top of the board and into a 60amp breaker on the board. I assume this is acting as my main breaker but does this mean I essentially only have a 60amp service? I could not read what was on my service wire but it is copper; is there anyway I can check and be sure? I unfortunately do not have the extra money to pay an electrician to replace my panel, would my electrical inspector be able to tell? I have added a picture of my panel.
Last edited by ray2047; 05-31-17 at 01:42 PM. Reason: Rotate image.
#2
05-31-17, 11:43 AM
Over the years residential service panels have increased in size. Originally a 30 ampere service was standard, probably prior to WWI. The next standard was 60 amperes that lasted until about the end of WWII. The current minimum is 100 amperes and panels rated at 125 and 150 amperes have been used although they are somewhat scarce. 200 ampere services are probably the most common these days although the minimum is still 100 amperes.
The panel shown in the picture has what are known as "feed-through" lugs which is why it has lugs at both the top and the bottom. Because it has more than "six throws" to shut off all power it MUST have a single circuit breaker or fused switch ahead of it to be used as a main shut-off. I need to see the panel on the power pole to give you more information.
The panel shown in the picture has what are known as "feed-through" lugs which is why it has lugs at both the top and the bottom. Because it has more than "six throws" to shut off all power it MUST have a single circuit breaker or fused switch ahead of it to be used as a main shut-off. I need to see the panel on the power pole to give you more information.
#3
05-31-17, 05:19 PM
the panel on the pole is just a shut off, I can try to get a picture of that loaded up this evening. So if I were to switch to a traditional breaker box, would I have to get rid of the main shut off?
#4
05-31-17, 07:43 PM
Group Moderator
While many feel that it is not enough, fact is most homes will do just fine with a 100 amp service. One of the big reasons to go with a larger service is you will get more spaces for circuits.
No, the outside disconnect (which should have fuses) can remain. The fuses will determine the amps of your service. The main breaker in the new panel will only act as a disconnect.
So if I were to switch to a traditional breaker box, would I have to get rid of the main shut off?
#5
05-31-17, 07:59 PM
Group Moderator
I do have a shut off on my service pole; when I checked that last night there was no breaker
Like Tolyn mentioned... that would determine the main size.
Those two small wires stuffed in that large breaker is unsafe. The white wire connected to the hot lug should be recolored other than white.
#7
06-01-17, 07:14 AM
Well that (disconnect) doesn't meet code, probably never did because they are using white for the ungrounded conductors (hots) and black for the neutral. Under current code it is wrong because not fused and there is only three wires, no EGC.
No, but it needs to be replaced with a fused disconnect or breaker box and the wires to the house changed out to correct colors and perhaps size increased and a fourth wire added. The panel at the house should really need to be changed to a main breaker type panel so you can have more than six circuits.
would I have to get rid of the main shut off?
Last edited by ray2047; 06-01-17 at 12:00 PM.
#8
06-01-17, 11:35 AM
Group Moderator
Pretty scary......
No neutral/ground bond.
A three phase disconnect used for single phase and opening the neutral on disconnect.
Ray mentioned the colors already.
No neutral/ground bond.
A three phase disconnect used for single phase and opening the neutral on disconnect.
Ray mentioned the colors already.
#9
06-01-17, 10:16 PM
I'm confused. The switch has white-white-black but I don't see that in the first pic of the panel. Is there another box or splice somewhere?
Also thinking that is a split bus panel. Could be 100 amp service if the wire sizes are big enough.
Regardless you need all of that ripped out and start fresh.
Also thinking that is a split bus panel. Could be 100 amp service if the wire sizes are big enough.
Regardless you need all of that ripped out and start fresh.
#10
06-02-17, 07:44 AM
I'm confused. The switch has white-white-black but I don't see that in the first pic of the panel. Is there another box or splice somewhere?
#11
06-03-17, 07:09 AM
No third box that I know of; unless it's hidden underground.
This all opens up a new can of worms; the current service pole is on my neighbors property and runs underground to my house, if I start fresh I should probably see about getting an all new service on my property.
This all opens up a new can of worms; the current service pole is on my neighbors property and runs underground to my house, if I start fresh I should probably see about getting an all new service on my property.
