River pump

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  #1  
Old 06-05-17, 06:31 AM
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River pump

Our well was disconnected due to new sproc tank environmental requirements. The well guys left us the pipe, electric cable, and old Gould's pump.
I would like to run a pump from the river with pipe and cable buried 24". However, the pump and wire would have to be removed before each winter. This means having a utility electric receptacle near the pump so it can be plugged in and disconnected rather than hardwired.

There are no local code requirements on this surprisingly and I have a letter to state that from the city.

Question is what wire should I use between the utility receptacle and the river pump? This will maybe be 20ft long.
The rest of the piping and uf cable will run 200ft to the garage pressure tank and electric distribution panel.

Edit. I forgot to add, the pump is 240v so how do I gfci protect it?
 

Last edited by qwertyjjj; 06-05-17 at 06:58 AM.
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Old 06-05-17, 07:33 AM
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You could use SOOW or SJOOW cord. Two pole GFCIs are available.

How are you going to ensure the water is safe to drink and remains safe to drink?
 
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Old 06-05-17, 12:05 PM
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It's for garden irrigation only.
The gfci needs to go in the panel then? One question on this.... the panel connects to a pressure switch and the pressure switch connects to the pimp. Since the switch is normally off the gfci would only kick in if on and there was a fault?
Panel gfci seems to be 10x the price.
 
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Old 06-05-17, 12:17 PM
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Yes a 2-pole GFCI device is rather expensive, although it would not be required by code in this case. I think it's a good idea, but ultimately your choice. The separate switch is also not required for a pump connected by a cord-and-plug or if the breaker is located within line-of-sight of the pump.

The GFCI breaker would only trip if there was a fault.

If this pump and electrical equipment is exposed to the weather you need to use an in-use style bubble cover on the pump receptacle. It will probably need to be the larger size to accommodate the 240V plug and thicker cord. If it is in some sort of shed you can use a standard receptacle cover.
 
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Old 06-05-17, 03:00 PM
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The utility access point for the pump would be near the river and therefore outside. Doesn;t that need GFCI protection? Since it is 240v, there is no 240v GFCI receptacle?
 
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Old 06-05-17, 04:23 PM
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From another site: "If you take water from a creek or pond or any other natural body of water in the USA without checking on the legal rights and requirements you can get into a lot of hot water, fast."

The city may not care, but your state supersedes them, and they might. Another quote:

"you need to talk with the US Fish & Game Department, State regulators, and possibly the Environmental Protection Agency (or equivalent agencies for whatever country you are located in.) "

...for example... sucking up fish... city may not care, but guess who does.
 
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Old 06-05-17, 06:41 PM
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I believe he is in Canada so the USA won't care.
Geo
 
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Old 06-05-17, 07:01 PM
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The utility access point for the pump would be near the river and therefore outside. Doesn;t that need GFCI protection? Since it is 240v, there is no 240v GFCI receptacle?

The reason I need the utility/service receptacle near the river is to remove the pump in winter. It can;t be hard wired because of that.

Also, the pump will be in a plastic box with fine mesh to prevent leaves, fish etc. from getting in.
 
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Old 06-05-17, 07:15 PM
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Nobody I know of makes a 240 volt GFCI receptacles (yet) only breakers. Since it is 240 volt, no GFCI is required, again, yet. Newest NEC cycle (2017) will now require 240 volt receptacles to be GFCI protected. Not sure of the CEC.
 
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Old 06-05-17, 07:31 PM
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Grrrrr... that bit of info isn't displayed on the mobile version. (Grumble, grumble)
 
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Old 06-05-17, 07:49 PM
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I should also mention I think it only applies to dwellings.
 
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Old 06-06-17, 07:56 AM
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The only 240V pumps that must have GFCI protection are those for pools and spas. Irrigation pumps do not require GFCI protection, but you can add it if you want. It won't hurt anything and adds a measure of safety.

In this case it sounds like all you need is a 240V receptacle to match the pump's amperage requirement with a weatherproof bubble cover. The receptacle should be mounted to something substantial like a 4x4 wooden or 2" galvanized post for protection and support.
 
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Old 06-06-17, 12:07 PM
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Seems odd that 120 needs gfci but 240v doesn't. I guess there are not that many 240v outside access points. Maybe a used 2 pole gfci breaker would make it cheaper.
Is SJOOW cable needed if you house the underwater part of the wires in pipe? Would probably need to do that anyway to protect the wires from fraying in the river if they move slightly.
 
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Old 05-21-18, 07:18 PM
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Just going back on this old thread.
the GFCI breaker connects to a pressure switch.
It's there any part of the wire from pressure switch to control box to 3 wire pump that would be line when the pressure switch is off?
If not, then I presume the GFCI world only pick up a fault in the pump when the pressure switch is allowing power to it?
Would it pick up a fault from 3 wires and control box? Presume so since it's measuring current loss at the breaker end?

Why does code only require GFCI breakers for 120v?
 
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Old 05-21-18, 07:43 PM
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Why does code only require GFCI breakers for 120v?
GFCI protection is required on receptacles. It can either be a breaker or a device (receptacle or dead front). At this time nobody makes a 240v GFCI device other then a breaker. See my note in post #9

A GFCI device will detect a ground fault if any part of the circuit leaks current to ground and there is an imbalance on the load wires (hot to neutral or hot to hot) of the breaker/device.
 
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Old 05-21-18, 08:35 PM
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Most GFCI breakers come with a neutral as they are 120 or 240
​​​​​For a 2 pole circuit, do I just leave the neutral hanging off the breaker and connect only the red and black?
 
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Old 05-22-18, 08:54 AM
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The breaker should have a neutral pigtail which you need to connect to the neutral bus in the panel. You do not need a neutral from the breaker to the pump.
 
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Old 05-22-18, 11:55 AM
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I've read a few articles suggesting that motor loads will trip gfcis ?
 
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Old 05-22-18, 08:09 PM
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That may have occurred back in the day, but today's GFCI's are much better at avoiding nuisance tripping. That is unless they are leaking current to ground.
 
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