Induction Wire / Receptacle or Direct Connect?

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Old 09-17-17, 10:06 AM
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Exclamation Induction Wire / Receptacle or Direct Connect?

I have been unable to determine what size wire I need for a induction range that we recently installed.

We have an old 8/3 with a 14-50r receptacle.

Based upon a recent technician visit (stove electronics were acting up and had to be replaced) it was noted that the line should be upgraded for this stove.

The plate states 16400 KW 120/240v. Based upon my calculations, that would be a 4/3 at 68 amps (rounded up).

What kind of receptacle would I use for this??? Since the 14-50R is a 50 amp plug and clearly the plug for a 14-50r is certainly not a 4/3.... also what kind of 2 pole breaker would I use?

What is normal, btw, the owners manual for the stove does not indicate what specs the stove must have or I would not be here asking. Nor does the installation guide.

I would appreciate your feedback. The current wire in the home is definitely 8/3.

Thank you,

Don
 
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Old 09-17-17, 10:11 AM
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Over 50A and the stovetop needs to be direct connected. It should come with a prewired metal whip that gets connected into a junction box.

You are correct..... 4-3 w/grd is required.
 
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Old 09-17-17, 10:14 AM
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Thank you PJay

The stove did not come with a whip, is this something I should purchase and wire into a 220 box or is a direct connect preferred to the 4/3?

Also what breaker size should I install?

Or what would you recommend?

Thanks,

Don
 
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Old 09-17-17, 10:38 AM
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This is a complete slide in range ?
Can you post its model number for me ?
 
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Old 09-17-17, 10:52 AM
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Kenmore Elite 95073

The stove is a Kenmore Elite 95073.
 
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Old 09-17-17, 10:54 AM
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It's apparently a free standing range. That would not usually come with a cord. That unit is larger than a cord would normally be used with. However some manufacturers claim a 50A connection is all that's needed.

This is Kenmore's blanket statement....
 
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Old 09-17-17, 11:00 AM
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Seeing their blanket statement makes me think marketing had a pretty big say so.
 
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Old 09-17-17, 11:08 AM
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The right hand chart is for 120/240v.

I don't know why they bother to put a Kw rating on the appliance as it doesn't seem to apply to the actual connection required. You may be right.... a marketing gimmick.

I would use a 50A 4 wire cord and plug.
I would also use 6-3 w/grd. cable on a 2P50A breaker.

kenmore/assets/docs/spin_prod_892076812.pdf
 
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Old 09-17-17, 11:19 AM
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Rating vs Marketing

Ok, I was originally thinking that, however, wouldn't the load (as indicated on the actual sticker on the stove @ 16.4 kw 120/240 require a heavier feed line? (4/3) and would the 50a cord be sufficient?

I did see that "chart" but it defied logic to me as it did not address clearly a load over 50a...

?

Thanks,

Don
 
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Old 09-17-17, 11:27 AM
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Based strictly on the load plate it would need to be hardwired but I doubt you'd find the junction box on the range large enough to contain a larger cable.
 
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Old 10-02-17, 06:51 AM
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Thank you all and very interesting results.

Ok, I ran 65' of 6/3 wire from the panel to the stove and installed a 50 amp DPB. I pulled the old varnished cloth 1950's (or asbestos-- insulated, not quite sure...) and i cut a piece off and checked it with a wire gauge. It was indeed 8/3 and fine stranded copper and was running a 40ADP breaker at the panel but had never tripped.

As strange as it may sound, the stove has come to life. It boils 4 qts of water in under 1 minute and is operating at never before seen speed and power.

I am VERY surprised at the difference... (the same pot of water to boil on the same induction burner) took almost 5 minutes to come to boil prior to removal of the old wire, in addition to some other quirky issues which are still present but in process of being resolved.

I would like to thank you all for your feedback. Given these results, I doubt I need to go to a 4 gauge wire, however, was the old 8/3 wire from the 50's just unable to even remotely flow the power required? I would expect that it would be very close in theory to 6/3 carrying capacity from a real-world point of view, as a stove would use power...

The reason I ask is I have a lot of this old wire in the home, we have been replacing much of it with new circuits as we can, however, it seems to be grossly underrated for its gauge.

BTW: The old 65' of 8/3 coiled like a rope with very little effort... after seeing how hard it was to stretch the 6/3 fairly straight to make the run... you gotta wonder how soft that old copper was.

Thank you all again.

Don
 

Last edited by donbrownzd1; 10-02-17 at 06:55 AM. Reason: Add a further note.
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Old 10-02-17, 07:02 AM
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I suppose it could be very sensitive to voltage drop where the #6 could make a difference. Perhaps it has a logic board that restricts cooking power when the source voltage drops down. My guess is perhaps that the old cable had a loose connection somewhere and after the replacement everything is torqued down and current flowing properly.

Was the old cable ungrounded? At that age 3 wire cable would be standard. The new grounded 4 wire cable might allow for better functioning of the electronics in the induction system.
 
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Old 10-02-17, 07:25 AM
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interesting end notes

It had a ground wire, but was not grounded. The ground was wrapped around the end of the wire where it was clamped into the outlet box (metal to metal) but the stove was grounded with a strap to neutral.

I do know that the stove has 2 sides... burner 1/2 is 1 control board / power source and 3/4 is a 2nd control board power source and that it auto reduces power between 1/2 and 3/4 independently of each other based on current draw.

I am uncertain if the baking speed (time to temperature) has improved. I did not think to time that. My wife's complaint was that it was as slow or slower than our old stove to boil water. And the 3/4 side switch power indicators (it measures 0.5 - 9.5 and PB digitally) was flickering these weird hash marks at night, which is alleged to be a bad control board that we are awaiting changed out-- it still does this but seems to work ok, as I indicated... 1 minute to boil water on 4 (double element induction-- big burner) and on 1 it's about 1:35 (single element)

Maybe it pulls a huge draw then tapers off?

Don
 
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