Moving breakers

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  #81  
Old 10-08-17, 11:50 AM
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InterLockKits.com interlocks are tested and certified. That's one reason they cost so much.

Yes, they are tested and certified by an independent lab, but not by UL. That's why I suggest the OP ask the AHJ.

Wyle is a Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory authorized by OSHA and recognized by all 50 states.

**Some inspectors in the state of New Jersey have issues with our testing facility, Wyle Labs, and may not pass an electrical inspection.
 
  #82  
Old 10-08-17, 12:19 PM
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Yes, they are tested and certified by an independent lab, but not by UL. That's why I suggest the OP ask the AHJ.

The InterLockKit is tested by MET labs and is tested to the UL safety standards. It doesn't matter that it's not being tested in a UL lab. MET is a Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory (NRTL) recognized by OSHA and meets the same legal requirements as UL. Though I do agree with checking with the AHJ to see if they allow interlocks.
 
  #83  
Old 10-08-17, 12:57 PM
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The InterLockKit is tested by MET labs and is tested to the UL safety standards. It doesn't matter that it's not being tested in a UL lab. MET is a Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory (NRTL) recognized by OSHA and meets the same legal requirements as UL.

The quote in my post came from the interlockkit.com website. I didn't see anything about MET Labs. The NRTL point is valid with me, but I have also dealt with quite a few inspectors that were just anal about UL Listings.
 
  #84  
Old 10-12-17, 07:03 PM
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But whether it will be accepted and pass inspection is up to the AHJ (your local inspector). It's always best to ask before purchasing anything that may in the least bit be questionable. Being tested in UL Listed panels is a far cry from being tested and listed by UL.

Yes. And while the InterLockKits.com interlocks are tested, their certification is MET US classified to UL 67 which is not "listed" according to the building inspector I contacted. He says, "Listed means tested and evaluated by a nationally recognized testing lab and bearing their mark. MET US classified to UL 67 is not a listing."

Here's a link to their certification if you scroll down a bit: http://www.interlockkit.com/?_vsrefd...FQsHhgodiC4CAA

Other interlock kits like those from GenInterlock have MET certification and cost less: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 

Last edited by suobs; 10-12-17 at 07:27 PM.
  #85  
Old 10-12-17, 07:13 PM
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Even so, I'm going with the InterlockKits.com option because there are not really many other choices - other than replacing the main panel with one that the manufacturer makes a UL listed interlock for. I'll just hope the inspector who comes is reasonable.

Or I could pay an electrician $1400 and let him worry about finding a listed interlock and passing inspection. Don't like that option.

It's really a catch-22.
 

Last edited by suobs; 10-12-17 at 07:44 PM.
  #86  
Old 10-12-17, 07:22 PM
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To return to an earlier topic, at some point someone suggested a 50A or 60A breaker for the generator rather than the 30A I had planned n (see shopping list above). I have two generators and one is 45A. Can I just use 50A or 60A instead of 30A for the generator breaker?

Here's Ray2047's original plan. I'm talking about the replacing the 30A generator breaker with 50 or 60A:
 
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Last edited by suobs; 10-12-17 at 07:38 PM.
  #87  
Old 10-12-17, 07:35 PM
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Assuming the receptacle on the generator is protected by a breaker, and that is almost always the case, the breaker in the house panel acts as switch only so it can be any amp equal to or greater than the generator breaker. The important thing is the wiring from the generator to the house panel must be adequate for the generator breaker.
 
  #88  
Old 10-12-17, 07:40 PM
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I edited it above to add your diagram . The main breaker that shuts off the house is 150A and the house has a central air, fridge, and other big stuff, so the wiring to the house should be adequate. Right?
 
  #89  
Old 10-12-17, 07:42 PM
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If you use a 50A or 60A breaker the wire and power inlet need to be sized the same.
 
  #90  
Old 10-12-17, 07:46 PM
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Gotcha. The new wiring to the new subpanel that will have the old breakers, and to the power inlet, right?
 
  #91  
Old 10-12-17, 08:22 PM
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There may be some confusion. The generator power Inlet gets wired to the interlocked gen breaker in the meter Main panel.
 
  #92  
Old 10-13-17, 02:50 AM
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There may be some confusion. The generator power Inlet gets wired to the interlocked gen breaker in the meter Main panel.

I (think) I understand that. Someone said earlier

The important thing is the wiring from the generator to the house panel must be adequate for the generator breaker.

and I was initially responding to that. The "house panel" (at least my terminology) is the subpanel in the house; the "main panel" is the panel with the service shutoff that we're adding a new subpanel to (on the exterior shop wall), which will have the new generator inlet and generator breaker. I think we've decided the wiring to the house subpanel is adequate, and you all are now trying to ensure the gen inlet wiring will be adequate.
 
  #93  
Old 10-13-17, 02:54 AM
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I'm going to try to draw a wiring diagram.
 
  #94  
Old 10-13-17, 04:00 AM
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The panel outside below the meter is the house panel. The one in the house is the house subpanel.
 
  #95  
Old 10-13-17, 06:16 AM
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suobs, I wanted to make sure because of your wording that you understand that the new generator interlocked breaker for the power inlet goes in the main panel. Your sentence structure made me think that you thought that the breaker for the gen power inlet was to go in the new subpanel. My suggestion was if you use a 50A interlocked breaker for the gen power inlet that you should use the correct size wire for 50A and use a 50A power inlet, don't use a 50A breaker with 30A wire and 30A power inlet.
 
  #96  
Old 10-13-17, 09:21 AM
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. suobs, I wanted to make sure because of your wording that you understand that the new generator interlocked breaker for the power inlet goes in the main panel. Your sentence structure made me think that you thought that the breaker for the gen power inlet was to go in the new subpanel. My suggestion was if you use a 50A interlocked breaker for the gen power inlet that you should use the correct size wire for 50A and use a 50A power inlet, don't use a 50A breaker with 30A wire and 30A power inlet.
​​​​​​Thanks for reading carefully. I see the syntax confusion but no I realized the gen breaker goes in the main panel (AKA house panel) and connects to the inlet. That said I still need to determine if I can find a 60 or 50A inlet so thanks for the reminder.
 
  #97  
Old 10-13-17, 10:47 AM
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I believe a 50A power inlet is the largest you are going to find for hooking up a portable generator.
 
  #98  
Old 10-13-17, 11:59 AM
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. believe a 50A power inlet is the largest you are going to find for hooking up a portable generator.

Right, not finding 60A Will go with 50A inlet with appropriate breaker and wiring. Breaker can be 60A though if wiring is suitable, risght?
 
  #99  
Old 10-13-17, 12:05 PM
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If using wire and inlet rated at 50A I would also use a 50A breaker.
 
  #100  
Old 10-13-17, 02:05 PM
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Ok
,......... ....... ,.. ..
 
  #101  
Old 10-30-17, 06:00 PM
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Believe it or not I'm still working on getting an interlock that fits right. The part of the main switch in the photo below that the green arrow points to looks like some kind of extension to widen the switch itself. Does anyone know if it can be flipped to the other side (the upper side in the photo) of the switch? I've tried with gentle pressure, don't want to force it.
 
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  #102  
Old 10-30-17, 06:39 PM
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I think that metal piece snaps off and can turned around.
 
  #103  
Old 04-22-18, 08:08 AM
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So hurricane season is coming up and I never completed this project. I have the parts that were recommended (box for extra breakers, new breakers, generator inlet, wire, an interlock that fits, etc) but am unsure about some of the wiring steps.

Just wanted to make sure you gents are still on board to help.
 
  #104  
Old 04-22-18, 01:47 PM
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Well my first question is about the wiring to/from the breakers in the new box.

You'll remember (maybe not?) the plan is to install an interlock slider so that when a generator is connected the generator breaker can be switched on while power from Service is switched off - and vice-versa. See diagram in post #86 above - the plan is to install a breaker for the generator inlet and a breaker for a subpanel, which will contain the breakers marked with red X's in post #86. The generator inlet breaker is below the Service switch and the interlock device slides to prevent both from being on at the same time.

My remaining questions are about the wiring for the subpanel and generator inlet.

For the SUBPANEL, is the diagram below correct? It shows black and red from the subpanel breaker in the main panel going to the feed lugs on the subpanel, the white wire going from the neutral bus bar on the main panel to the subpanel neutral bus bar, and the ground wire connecting the ground bus in the main panel to the ground bus in the subpanel.
 
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  #105  
Old 04-22-18, 03:06 PM
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The main panel, that is the first panel after the meter, does not usually have a ground bar. Is that instead a panel after the main panel in your diagram?
 
  #106  
Old 04-22-18, 04:13 PM
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It's the main panel, the first after the meter, but see below. Isn't that a ground bus in the upper right with green wires, with the neutral bus below it? BTW what is the bar mounted to the back of the subpanel for in second photo?

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  #107  
Old 04-22-18, 04:39 PM
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Isn't that a ground bus in the upper right with green wires, -±
To me the top bus appears to be a neutral bar. Is it on insulators.?

The bottom bus appears to be a addon ground bar. Is it fastened directly to the metal case, no insulators?
 
  #108  
Old 04-22-18, 04:50 PM
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That's the way the panel is set up, and the wires on the upper bus are green. The wires on the lower bus are white.

By insulators do you mean something to keep it from making contact with the box, like rubber pads or something?
 
  #109  
Old 04-22-18, 04:57 PM
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By insulators do you mean something to keep it from making contact with the box, like rubber pads or something?
Yes. .
 
  #110  
Old 04-22-18, 05:16 PM
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Yes...that is a main panel and yes the neutral and ground are tied together and then to the box. That is correct for a main panel.
 
  #111  
Old 04-22-18, 06:09 PM
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RAY2047
Isn't that a ground bus in the upper right with green wires, -±
To me the top bus appears to be a neutral bar. Is it on insulators.?

The bottom bus appears to be a addon ground bar. Is it fastened directly to the metal case, no insulators?
No insulators that I can see on either bus bar. Both bars seem to be screwed directly into the box body so they must be making contact. Both bars are OEM judging from the diagram below. If I'm reading it right, the top bar "E" should be neutral and the bottom bar should be ground.

Not sure what to make of this. It's been that way for about 20 years and all works fine. What next?
 
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  #112  
Old 04-22-18, 06:13 PM
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OK, I didn't see Pete's message before replying. So it's OK as is?
 
  #113  
Old 04-23-18, 07:31 AM
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If I'm reading it right, the top bar "E" should be neutral and the bottom bar should be ground.

That's how I read it too, but I see some white neutral conductors on the bottom ground bar, that is technically wrong. This is using the steel box as a current carrying conductor for the neutral conductors.
 
  #114  
Old 04-23-18, 05:43 PM
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I feel like I walked into a debate here. Should I switch out which bus bars the white and green wires are connected to so that white goes to top bar and green goes to bottom bar?

Or does it matter? There's a small gap between the bars but they are connected to each other via the box metal.

PJMAX, I think you're saying this setup is OK? You said : "that is a main panel and yes the neutral and ground are tied together and then to the box. That is correct for a main panel."
 

Last edited by suobs; 04-23-18 at 07:37 PM.
  #115  
Old 07-04-18, 05:13 AM
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Just wanted to check in because nobody's been replying. Would it be best I start a new thread for the last question and my remaining questions?
 
  #116  
Old 07-04-18, 06:54 AM
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Neutrals need to be on the top bar. Only grounding conductors can be on the lower bar. You cannot have neutrals on the lower bar. It put current onto the metal box.
 
  #117  
Old 07-07-18, 12:00 AM
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OK, thanks, I will switch the ground and neutral on the bars and put together a final diagram of everything.
 
  #118  
Old 07-15-18, 09:01 PM
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Wyles labs lost their OSHA certification in 2011.
https://www.osha.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/recgterm.html
 
  #119  
Old 07-15-18, 10:14 PM
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Thanks for that info and that site.
 
  #120  
Old 07-18-18, 06:52 PM
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I'm not sure I understand exactly what OSHA would have to do with a testing lab or whether it should be recognized.
 
 

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