Neutral Lug Kit (as ground lug)

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Old 12-16-17, 10:31 PM
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Neutral Lug Kit (as ground lug)

Funny, the instructions say that for something like a subpanel to "install neutral lug only in the neutral bar" (with the word ONLY bolded and capitalized).

Common sense though would tell me that if it fits in a ground bar that it would serve the same purpose for a ground wire (if I wanted a bigger opening for the ground wire in a ground bar).

Anyway, I tried to look up "ground lug kit"s in case they had to be green or something, but found that the manufacturer of the neutral lug kit had clarified on their website that it could be used with a ground bar too.

"How does the QO70AN mount in a load center and is it a 'fork' type neutral lug?

The QO70AN is a 'Fork' type neutral lug that mounts in two of the wire binding holes in a branch neutral bar or PK ground bar and uses the wire binding screws for those holes tighten the lug in place."

https://www.schneider-electric.us/en...l-lug-kit-70a/

So it's no longer a question, and just seemed peculiar when put that way in the instructions (which codes say to follow if not specified elsewhere, but the instructions aren't always comprehensive enough to spell out something like this in common sense terms). I'm glad they had more info on the site about these being compatible with the ground bar. FYI

My point in using one after all is to improve upon the circumstance of installing a stranded ground wire, which is more likely to lose strands if I have to stuff it into a smaller hole on a ground bar than a larger hole on a lug, which is also raised off the bar to make it easier to insert there. Probably not a typical circumstance, since they call it a "neutral lug". Well, whatever works... I'll go with common sense for lack of information, but will try to look these things up all the same. Since it was in their technical faq, I guess someone else was wondering too.
 

Last edited by electrialdocius; 12-16-17 at 11:58 PM.
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Old 12-17-17, 07:02 AM
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The word "only" pertains to how it's to be installed in the neutral bar, not that it can only be used as a neutral lug. The instructions only pertain to the use of the lug for a neutral since it's sold as such. They also have a ground lug kit but it is panel mounted.
 
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Old 12-17-17, 08:55 AM
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The instructions are clear but the FAQ is confusing, possibly incorrect. The kit is sold as a neutral lug kit so instructions are how to use it as such. I wouldn't expect to find instructions violating its UL listing.

Do you buy a pair of pliers and lament that the instructions don't tell you how to use it as a hammer?
 
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Old 12-17-17, 10:23 AM
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No more than you may lament at having nothing to argue about and making up something silly. It fits there, and no strands were damaged, so I'll just apply the proper torque with a hammer or pair of pliers.

Besides, the instructions are obviously more confusing or they wouldn't have a Technical FAQ to clarify such things (and apparently people were asking about the ground bar, since they mentioned it specifically). If hearing that from the horse's mouth isn't enough for you, then follow the instructions to the letter. But like I said, using this for that only improves things, so I'm not concerned about the semantics of it otherwise.

I did see what looked like a panel mount ground lug (as mentioned) in a different section of the same store today, oddly enough (without instructions). I'd still prefer using the neutral lug in this case, because it sits in a better position for where there's room to carefully install the wire, and use the space that the ground bar is taking up already.
 

Last edited by electrialdocius; 12-17-17 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 12-17-17, 11:17 AM
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Let's keep it civil and stay on track.

I have used that add-a-lug in a ground block or a neutral block.
However... for an additional equipment ground lug......an LK100AN should be used.... which is listed as a neutral lug also.

schneider-electric.us/en/product/LK100AN/load-center-lug/
 
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Old 12-17-17, 12:12 PM
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Thanks, that one installs nicely too (maybe depending on panel depth), but says it will accept a minimum of #6 gauge wire (as it covers three screw slots), while the other starts at #14.

I also noticed in the other technical faq that it mentions more lugs as well:

"Are NQ panels with feed through lug feature, supplied with feed through ground lugs?

There is no feed through ground lug option . nor is it included with the Feed thru lug features. The ground bar is bolted to the box. An additional QO70AN , Q1100AN, or Q1150AN lug can be added to supplied ground bar, based upon wire size exiting Panel"

Not sure how you verify details of what's listed for dual purposes, I checked the UL site (certifications directory), but it doesn't go into detail like the technical faq, or even list that specific part number. Basically all it tells me is that they make lugs.

Well, I guess it isn't listed directly, based on a related answer in their faq:

"Is the equipment ground lug GTK0610 UL listed?

The GTK0610 equipment ground does NOT maintain it's own UL Listing, it is UL listed under the UL File numbers for the GD and HD Safety Switches as an accessory. See the Safety Switches UL Files E2875 and E154828."

I don't see anything related to a listing on this other package (or part) either. So were you guys referring to some details in accessory listings, or maybe presuming lugs were listed a certain way (if you meant "listing" as such)... perhaps it's more like listing mounting screws, and kind of unnecessary (even though it's sold separately). What they said in the FAQ though is that there is no similar ground lug option other than a neutral lug kit for a ground bar. So I don't see why they didn't simply title the kits as being both, unless that could make it too complicated for some to hook them up correctly (and the rest pertains only to those who would care to look it up). Well, speaking of following instructions to the letter, maybe this is a hint: "Failure to follow these instruction will result in death or serious injury", and since they didn't pluralize "instruction" in that sentence, then the rest might be somewhere else.
 

Last edited by electrialdocius; 12-17-17 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 12-17-17, 07:16 PM
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Looks to me like the instruction wording is supposed to mean that you stick the two legs of the lug assembly into two (adjacent) set screw equipped holes of a ground or neutral bar, not use a single screw of a different kind of terminal or terminal strip to go between and hold down both legs of the lug assembly.
 
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Old 12-17-17, 10:10 PM
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Schneider's info really is lacking. Since it is described on the packaging and part descriptions as a neutral lug, not a ground or neutral lug, the included directions only address using it as being used for a neutral lug. The "only" warning seems to say don't use this to connect a neutral wire to the ground bar - kind of basic wiring guidance.

As suggested they should have described it as both a ground and neutral lug. Who knows what they were thinking but it appears they did not consider using it as a ground lug when they put the packaging and instructions together. In practice almost no one would notice or care if used as a ground lug.

Separately I have seen a (Siemens?) grounding lug that can not be used as a neutral lug. If I remember right it did not have a shield/insulator that the neutral version had.
 
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Old 12-18-17, 12:51 AM
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Yeah, I wouldn't complain about them being available in hardware stores, although it doesn't seem like the best way to market them there as single purpose, for the sake of those looking to add accessories. Yet I've found things hooked up the wrong way, between ground and neutral, and gather that it's all too common, so it's no wonder to me already, and I'm pretty new to this (not exactly a hobby, but I'd rather not have someone else miswire things again). It's alright, nothing too complicated, and this is a popular enough topic that most of my questions were already answered somewhere (between books, multimedia, codes, etc). This one was not generally discussed so much, so now we know.
 

Last edited by electrialdocius; 12-18-17 at 01:17 AM.
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