Old Style 220 Outlet with New Style Dryer Plug

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Old 01-15-18, 07:00 PM
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Smile Old Style 220 Outlet with New Style Dryer Plug

Greetings,

I recently decided to rent out a little pool house, and while putting in the washer and dryer, I noticed that the styles are way different from what the dryer plugs into and what the outlet provides. I attached pictures of both.

I'm not sure what the best course of action is here, I've looked for an adapter, but there doesn't seem to be one for this exact difference, maybe I'm wrong?

Appreciate any advice as to what I should do, thanks.
 
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Old 01-15-18, 07:30 PM
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Welcome to the forums.

The receptacle is an older Nema 10-30R. It's a 240v only receptacle.
Your dryer cord is a 30A 120/240v power cord.

Technically you should have a four wire receptacle for it. That would require four wires from the panel. More than likely there are only three wires there which forces you to replace the 4w dryer cord with a 3w cord.
 
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Old 01-15-18, 07:50 PM
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So the correct way to do it would be to replace the dryer cord to fit the receptacle?
 
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Old 01-15-18, 08:19 PM
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Unless there is another wire not used behind the existing receptacle you need to change the cord to match the receptacle.
 
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Old 01-16-18, 12:16 AM
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The dryer will also probably need to have its neutral and ground connected per manufacturer's instructions for a 3-wire cord set.
 
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Old 01-16-18, 12:24 AM
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Okay, so I suppose I need to head to home depot and rewire that dryer. I doubt it will be that difficult, thank you all for the help
 
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Old 01-16-18, 02:25 AM
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First you need to open the receptacle to see what it is wired with. Bare ground may be okay for SE cable but not NM if I recall code correctly.
 
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Old 01-16-18, 04:03 AM
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Reminder here folks if I may please - Killawattz you are renting this unit. You really should not be doing anything with the existing receptacle without first contacting your landlord for permission because of liability issues. But in fact if it is determined that the receptacle is only a three wire then you are free to change the harness on the dryer to match it but again as mentioned you must make sure then that you connect the neutral to the ground of the stove/range.
 
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Old 01-16-18, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by AFJES View Post
Reminder here folks if I may please - Killawattz you are renting this unit. You really should not be doing anything with the existing receptacle without first contacting your landlord for permission because of liability issues. But in fact if it is determined that the receptacle is only a three wire then you are free to change the harness on the dryer to match it but again as mentioned you must make sure then that you connect the neutral to the ground of the stove/range.
I read this as he is renting out his pool house so he is the landlord. Maybe I'm assuming incorrectly.
 
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Old 01-16-18, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by PJmax
...The receptacle is an older Nema 10-30R. It's a 240v only receptacle.
Your dryer cord is a 30A 120/240v power cord. ...
.
No, the older NEMA 10 devices are also 120/240 V. They have a neutral, but no dedicated ground. The chassis of the dryer was bonded to the neutral at the point where the cord is connected.

The newer NEMA 14 devices are 120/240 with both a neutral and a dedicated ground. The bonding jumper needs to be removed when using one of these cords.

OP: Match the cord to the receptacle. They sell the cords at the same place they sell the dryers. Replace the cord, and there should be a place to bond the chassis to the neutral connection.
 
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Old 01-21-18, 12:00 AM
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Yes, I own the place, I'm renting it out.

Well, I sorta did all that was suggested, followed this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZcjafvhSSU Only thing I'm not sure about is if I'm supposed to be adding in a ground somewhere, it would seem all I need to do is connect the middle wire and that's it, it's grounded to the chassis of the dryer. It only has one, that's why it's a 3 prong...right?

And after connecting everything, it didn't work, dryer is not getting power. I brought out the multi meter to try and figure out what's going on, and I checked resistance on the cord I bought, it all checked out good. Upon checking power at the outlet, the left hot to the ground reads 120, all good, the other read....30. But what really confused the hell out of me was when I tested both hot prongs at the same time, I got 240v....how is that possible? 120 + 30 != 240.

Well I started digging into it even more, and went and opened up the breaker box. Checked the breaker and one side puts out 120v, the other nothing, checked them both together and they get 220v, so I don't really know what's going on exactly.

I'm assuming it's a bad breaker, thoughts?
 
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Old 01-21-18, 02:48 AM
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Sounds like a bad breaker but turn it on and off a couple of times. May be getting stuck. I would replace it anyway to be sure.
 
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Old 01-21-18, 07:15 PM
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Well, I replaced the breaker, and it's still doing the same thing. At the breaker one side gets me 240v, the other I'm getting around 20v.....faulty wiring? I'm at a loss.
 
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Old 01-22-18, 03:06 AM
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Try measuring to ground then neutral.
 
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Old 01-22-18, 01:32 PM
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Without knowing the exact testing procedure, it's hard to guess what is really going on. Verify tight connections on the breaker and the neutral strip.

Test the main lugs or main breaker poles-to-ground voltage, as well as the other 2-pole breakers.

What meter are you using? Do you have a solenoid-type tester that puts a load on the circuit being tested?

When you had 240V across the breaker poles, that told me you did not have a faulty breaker the first time.

Some jurisdictions require landlords to hire licensed contractors. Assuming you've verified that you are allowed to work on properties that you rent out.
 
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Old 01-23-18, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
Without knowing the exact testing procedure, it's hard to guess what is really going on. Verify tight connections on the breaker and the neutral strip.

Test the main lugs or main breaker poles-to-ground voltage, as well as the other 2-pole breakers.

What meter are you using? Do you have a solenoid-type tester that puts a load on the circuit being tested?

When you had 240V across the breaker poles, that told me you did not have a faulty breaker the first time.

Some jurisdictions require landlords to hire licensed contractors. Assuming you've verified that you are allowed to work on properties that you rent out.
Not sure what's meant when you say test to ground then neutral. I'm using a bosch multimeter for testing.

Testing at the outlet and the breaker yield the same results; one pole tested to ground gets 240v, the other gets 15-20 volts. Testing across both hot poles results in the full 240v. The outlet yields the same. One leg gets 240v, the other 15-20. It's my understanding that each leg is supposed to get 120v each, then across they equal 240v. As it stands I'm getting 240v out of one leg, and next to nothing out of the other, hence, incorrect power to run a dryer. I checked all connections for security and proper grounding, and everything seems to be in order.

I'm not an electrician, my knowledge only goes so far as checking basic power, continuity, etc. And even that's sketchy at best. The bus the c/b is connected to is putting out 240v as it should, so either the breaker isn't in a spot that can support 240v, or something is wrong with the panel, I'm not real sure.

As far as working on my own stuff, I would never do anything unsafe, I'm just trying to figure out what exactly is going on. It's hard to find decent contractors where I live, most of them are con artists, and will make my wallet lighter and possibly do something dangerous.
 
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Old 01-23-18, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Killawattz View Post
Not sure what's meant when you say test to ground then neutral. I'm using a bosch multimeter for testing.

Testing at the outlet and the breaker yield the same results; one pole tested to ground gets 240v, the other gets 15-20 volts. Testing across both hot poles results in the full 240v. The outlet yields the same. One leg gets 240v, the other 15-20. It's my understanding that each leg is supposed to get 120v each, then across they equal 240v. As it stands I'm getting 240v out of one leg, and next to nothing out of the other, hence, incorrect power to run a dryer. I checked all connections for security and proper grounding, and everything seems to be in order.

I'm not an electrician, my knowledge only goes so far as checking basic power, continuity, etc. And even that's sketchy at best. The bus the c/b is connected to is putting out 240v as it should, so either the breaker isn't in a spot that can support 240v, or something is wrong with the panel, I'm not real sure.

As far as working on my own stuff, I would never do anything unsafe, I'm just trying to figure out what exactly is going on. It's hard to find decent contractors where I live, most of them are con artists, and will make my wallet lighter and possibly do something dangerous.
Testing at the outlet and the breaker yield the same results; one pole tested to ground gets 240v, the other gets 15-20 volts. Testing across both hot poles results in the full 240v. The outlet yields the same
Are you saying you are getting 240V between one leg of the breaker and ground and 20V between the other leg and ground ?
Is this main panel? Is neutral (white wire) and ground shared in a same bus?

Something is seriously wrong there.
If what you were saying is true, you will be frying some electronics in your house.

A picture inside of the panel indicating where you measured will be very helpful.
 
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Old 01-23-18, 02:10 PM
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Here's the picture. The circuit breaker is the only one on the left. And yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Measuring from post to ground, one pole is putting out 240v, the other around 20v.
 
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Old 01-23-18, 02:26 PM
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You have a sub panel. Ground and neutral are separated in that panel.

Try measuring again between neutral bar (where white wires are connected) and each poles.
Do you have 240V between 2 legs of the breaker (between black and white wires in your case).
Do you have 240V between 2 red wires on top?

Also, your existing wiring is incorrect. Ground conductor should not carry any current under normal condition. For old 3 wire setup, you don't have ground. Instead ground is connected to chassis at the appliance. With your current setup, 120V circuit of the dryer will let current run through ground wire instead of neutral.
It appears what you have right now is 8-2 cable with 10 AWG ground. This is not the right wire to use in 3 wire setup. While 10AWG is big enough to carry 30A current required for dryer, you need insulated neutral wire.

Basically your current setup is not safe to use.

You should pull new 10-3 cable and just install 4 prong outlet (NEMA 14-30).

If you don't want to change the wire, your only option is to get 240V only dryer and change the outlet to 240V outlet.
There are some 240V only dryers, which are basically a import from Europe. However, they are expensive (almost $2000) and hard to find.


I also don't see romex connectors at the bottom, where the wires enter. You need a romex connector there.
 
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Old 01-23-18, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by lambition View Post
You have a sub panel. Ground and neutral are separated in that panel.

Try measuring again between neutral bar (where white wires are connected) and each poles.
Do you have 240V between 2 legs of the breaker (between black and white wires in your case).
Do you have 240V between 2 red wires on top?

Also, your existing wiring is incorrect. Ground conductor should not carry any current under normal condition. For old 3 wire setup, you don't have ground. Instead ground is connected to chassis at the appliance. With your current setup, 120V circuit of the dryer will let current run through ground wire instead of neutral.
It appears what you have right now is 8-2 cable with 10 AWG ground. This is not the right wire to use in 3 wire setup. While 10AWG is big enough to carry 30A current required for dryer, you need insulated neutral wire.

Basically your current setup is not safe to use.

You should pull new 10-3 cable and just install 4 prong outlet (NEMA 14-30).

If you don't want to change the wire, your only option is to get 240V only dryer and change the outlet to 240V outlet.
There are some 240V only dryers, which are basically a import from Europe. However, they are expensive (almost $2000) and hard to find.


I also don't see romex connectors at the bottom, where the wires enter. You need a romex connector there.
Testing both main red wires, I get 240v across. I get the same results with using the neutral bar, the black wire connected to the breaker gets 240v, the white, 15-20v, usually around 17v, doesn't matter if it's grounded to the box or the neutral bar. Testing both the black and white wires together gets 240v.

My ignorance is starting to catch up to me, as I'm not really understanding the rest of what you are saying. My thinking was that the 3 prong was, 2 hots, one neutral, which in this case is used as a ground. It's grounded to the case, which in turn is connected to the neutral bar in the circuit breaker panel through the neutral plug on the cord. So how would voltage be transferred to that neutral? I could see something bad happening if the ground from the dryer's chassis came off perhaps...but that's the assumed risk when using a 3 prong plug to begin with.
 
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Old 01-23-18, 04:54 PM
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Testing both main red wires, I get 240v across. I get the same results with using the neutral bar, the black wire connected to the breaker gets 240v, the white, 15-20v, usually around 17v, doesn't matter if it's grounded to the box or the neutral bar. Testing both the black and white wires together gets 240v.
Test between neutral and each of the red wires on top.
Sounds like you have a loose or incorrectly wired neutral/ground. If you don't get 120V between red wires and neutral on both wires, check the main panel.
Take picture of where the neutral (a thick brownish wire in your case) and green ground wire.

My thinking was that the 3 prong was, 2 hots, one neutral, which in this case is used as a ground. It's grounded to the case, which in turn is connected to the neutral bar in the circuit breaker panel through the neutral plug on the cord.
In your existing wiring, you have ground wire connected to ground bus bar. Not neutral. It would be allowed (as in grandfathered, but not new) if neutral wire was connected to neutral bus bar. However, in order for this to work, you need a insulated neutral wire and it would be the same thickness as rest of the wire. Since you have 8-2 NM (or may be 10-2 NM), you don't have insulated neutral.

So how would voltage be transferred to that neutral? I could see something bad happening if the ground from the dryer's chassis came off perhaps...but that's the assumed risk when using a 3 prong plug to begin with.
Dryers are not 240V only, but 120V/240V. Control circuits and the motor is wired to 120V, which uses neutral wire, and heater is connected to 240V, which doesn't use neutral.
In your existing wiring, current for 120V circuit flows from one of the leg from the breaker to ground bus bar, then ground wire between main panel and the sub panel. In the main panel, this ground is connected together with neutral.

This ground wire is not supposed to carry any current unless you have a ground fault. That is why it is smaller size wire compared to the other wires feeding the panel.

You can also use SE wire which has bare neutral conductor, but you will have to connect this bare wire to neutral bus bar and insulate it.

The next best thing, although it still is illegal, is insulate bare ground wire from dryer outlet with heat shrink tubing, then connect it to neutral bus bar.

Because neutral and ground are separate in sub panel, bare neutral wire is just not allowed.
 
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Old 01-23-18, 05:22 PM
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Ok, I'm an idiot. I took all the breakers out and put them back in....I also noted some double lugging on one of the 120v circuit breakers, which I asked to be fixed before the purchase of the house....ugh. There's not enough space to really add another breaker. What sucks is I need to add another 240v breaker in the house, as there is no 240v connection in the kitchen, which makes installing an electric range....problematic. I think if I move some things around there may be room...

Anyway, I've been doing it all wrong. The circuit breaker is checking out fine now. I was grounding out the multimeter on the neutral ground bar which was giving the erroneous reading of 17v. I found this out because I was starting to wonder if my multimeter was just bad, so I started testing all the circuit breakers....and ALL the 120v one started to test at 17v. This would be impossible considering all the electrical works fine in the rest of the house. When I started grounding out on the actual ground neutral bar....they all started reading fine. Which makes sense considering that's where the circuit goes, whereas the ground goes to the...planet.

So based on what you are telling me, the reason the outlet still reads 240v on one leg, and 17v on the other, is because the neutral is connected to the ground bar, not the neutral bar....right? So it would only be a matter of putting the wire that's connected to the ground bar on to the neutral bar, and everything should work, correct?

I think I'm saying this all correctly, but it's a bit confusing...just trying to make it stick in the brain. The neutral is needed for the circuit to function (for the 120v side at least), while the ground is a safety feature. Ground is uninsulated, while neutral is.

So...it's appearing there is no safe way to do this besides tearing walls apart and routing new cables?
 

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Old 01-23-18, 07:07 PM
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I also noted some double lugging on one of the 120v circuit breakers
Some breakers allows double lugging. Square D QO breaker and some Square D HomeLine is the one I can think of right now. It will say on the breaker.


There's not enough space to really add another breaker.
Does your panel have any tandem breakers (2 breaker in a single breaker). If not, and if your panel allows, you can install tandem breakers to add more circuits.
If you have GE panel like your sub panel, then you can install THQP breakers (thin half size breakers you have for single poles) in place of full size breaker if your panel allows it. There will be a diagram on the panel if and where it is allowed.

If all else fails, time to add a sub panel.


So based on what you are telling me, the reason the outlet still reads 240v on one leg, and 17v on the other, is because the neutral is connected to the ground bar, not the neutral bar....right? So it would only be a matter of putting the wire that's connected to the ground bar on to the neutral bar, and everything should work, correct?
That is the reason you have wrong voltage at the outlet, but you still have issue some where. Ground and neutral connected together in the main panel. Therefore, you should still be getting 120V between ground and 2 legs of the breaker. I was asking to check voltage between neutral and 2 legs to figure out what is going on.

You may have bad ground connection at the main panel. Maybe burnt wire due incorrect wiring?
Check if any connection is loose.

By moving wire from ground bar to neutral will get you going, but you still have to insulate bare wire (although it still is illegal). If that bare wire touches chassis of the load center (breaker panel), now you have bonded ground to neutral in sub panel, which is not allowed.

I think I'm saying this all correctly, but it's a bit confusing...just trying to make it stick in the brain. The neutral is needed for the circuit to function (for the 120v side at least), while the ground is a safety feature. Ground is uninsulated, while neutral is.
The technical term for ground and neutral is Equipment Grounding Conductor (EGC) and Grounded Neutral Conductor (sometimes just called Grounded Conductor). They ultimately all goes to the ground, but separated beyond the main panel.

So...it's appearing there is no safe way to do this besides tearing walls apart and routing new cables?
The only real safe way is installing 3 conductor + ground cable and switch over to 4 prong.
 
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Old 01-23-18, 07:44 PM
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Here's the picture. The circuit breaker is the only one on the left. And yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Measuring from post to ground, one pole is putting out 240v, the other around 20v.

You have a couple problems going on. The problem I have yet to see addressed is the circuit wiring itself. Dryers need a 120/240 volt circuit and the circuit is obviously wired with 10-2 NM cable (aka Romex). This means the bare ground wire is being used as a neutral conductor which is a serious code violation. This has never been allowed by the NEC. The 10-2 cable must be replaced with 10-3 NM-B cable, the orange stuff. Prior to the 1996 NEC dryers were typically wired with 10-3 plain (1 Red, 1 Blk, 1 Wht and no ground).
 
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Old 01-23-18, 07:54 PM
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Some breakers allows double lugging. Square D QO breaker and some Square D HomeLine is the one I can think of right now. It will say on the breaker.
Actually, I think these ARE tandem breakers based on your description, all the single 120 volt ones. They are really narrow. One of them has a double lug.

Ground and neutral connected together in the main panel. Therefore, you should still be getting 120V between ground and 2 legs of the breaker.
I'll check the main panel in the morning. It's really hard to tell with this place, it seems most of the work done here was done by unskilled labor. I know that not one of the breakers in that sub panel, gets 120v to ground bar. Everything reads perfect between leg and neutral though. It would appear the entire house is grounded through the neutral bar.
 
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Old 01-24-18, 06:10 AM
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The pipe used to bring the feeder into the panel is not electrical conduit. It is plumbing pipe. It also does not have a fitting like a male adapter to hold it to the panel.
 
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Old 01-24-18, 07:10 AM
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The pipe used to bring the feeder into the panel is not electrical conduit. It is plumbing pipe. It also does not have a fitting like a male adapter to hold it to the panel.

I was focused on the 30 amp dryer breaker and totally missed this. PCBoss is correct, this is ABS plumbing pipe and should never have been used as conduit. This has been a hack job since it was installed.


Actually, I think these ARE tandem breakers based on your description, all the single 120 volt ones. They are really narrow. One of them has a double lug.

No, those are not tandem breakers, they appear to be half size GE THQP breakers and they are not approved for double lugging.

I have to question what service this mess is being fed from. It is not possible to get 240 volts from one pole to ground in a single phase service. The test results sound more like this mess is being fed from a 240 volt grounded delta 3-phase service. Is this being fed from a house or a commercial building?
 
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Old 01-24-18, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by CasualJoe View Post
I was focused on the 30 amp dryer breaker and totally missed this. PCBoss is correct, this is ABS plumbing pipe and should never have been used as conduit. This has been a hack job since it was installed.





No, those are not tandem breakers, they appear to be half size GE THQP breakers and they are not approved for double lugging.

I have to question what service this mess is being fed from. It is not possible to get 240 volts from one pole to ground in a single phase service. The test results sound more like this mess is being fed from a 240 volt grounded delta 3-phase service. Is this being fed from a house or a commercial building?
Yeah...this pool house was built.....oddly. You're right, this is plumbing pipe. Not sure what Arizona code says about that, but I'm sure it's not allowed...

The property has one main house,the pool house (the sub panel pictured) a car port, and a detached garage. These are all fed from the main breaker box on the main house.
 
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Old 01-25-18, 02:47 AM
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A little off topic but I have been following this, You as a landlord with unknown electrical problems are opening yourself up to a large liability. I would bite the bullet and get a electrician in and check for all unknowns. The panel problems are enough to be scary.
 
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Old 01-25-18, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by pugsl View Post
A little off topic but I have been following this, You as a landlord with unknown electrical problems are opening yourself up to a large liability. I would bite the bullet and get a electrician in and check for all unknowns. The panel problems are enough to be scary.
Absolutely. Everything will be fixed, but after looking at the BINSR when I bought this place, this was in the agreement to be fixed as part of the contract. So... I'm trying to reach the electrician that was contracted to do this. I was out of the country when I bought this place, but this was already noted by the general inspector that was hired.

So... this may get legal. I live in the main house, so haven't really paid too much attention to the other house til now.
 
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Old 01-25-18, 09:51 AM
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I'm trying to reach the electrician that was contracted to do this.

Good luck getting that guy to come back, I am sure he has already been paid. You don't even know what his agreement was with the seller of the property. I think you'd get further and much quicker if your attorney contacted the seller.
 
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Old 01-30-18, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by CasualJoe View Post
Good luck getting that guy to come back, I am sure he has already been paid. You don't even know what his agreement was with the seller of the property. I think you'd get further and much quicker if your attorney contacted the seller.
Well, the plot thickens. Good news and bad news. The good news is I had an electrician come out, guy seemed to know what he was doing. And, when I asked him about the 3 prong in the sub panel, he said normally the 3 prong is going to get it's neutral from the ground. I showed him that it wasn't, and he said that's because it's not grounded properly. He went to the main panel, and the ground was loose, in 5 minutes he tightened up the connection that goes in to the ground....and magically now everything works. Which confuses the hell out of me, but he said the 3 prong is getting its neutral and ground, from the ground bar, because those are both bonded in the main panel. And he appears to be right. Is this okay?

The bad news is that when he opened up the main panel, as soon as he started to remove the cover, things started shorting out, one circuit breaker tripped, and it was visible that a couple wires were missing from the ground bar. He believes that once that is rectified, all shorts and everything will be fine. The other bad news is there is no way I can add another 240v cb to that sub panel, as I've only got 90 amps coming to that pool house at it is, and to do so I would have to run new cables, so it looks like propane is the way I'm gonna have to go as far as getting a stove in there...

In the end, I managed to get in touch with the electrician that was supposed to do all this when I bought the place, and he's coming out tomorrow to fix the grounding issues, and then hopefully this nightmare will be over.

Thanks.
 
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Old 01-30-18, 11:10 AM
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Which confuses the hell out of me, but he said the 3 prong is getting its neutral and ground, from the ground bar, because those are both bonded in the main panel. And he appears to be right. Is this okay?
It will "work", but it is not legal. A three prong dryer outlet is ungrounded - it should have all insulated hot, hot and neutral wires. Any other variation is not and has never been legal, although you will see all sorts of crazy things in old buildings.
 
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Old 01-30-18, 05:30 PM
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And, when I asked him about the 3 prong in the sub panel, he said normally the 3 prong is going to get it's neutral from the ground.
NO! IT IS NOT. It gets ground from neutral not the other way around. This doesn't really matter when it is connected on the main panel where ground and neutral is connected at the same place, but it matters on the sub panel.

I showed him that it wasn't, and he said that's because it's not grounded properly. He went to the main panel, and the ground was loose, in 5 minutes he tightened up the connection that goes in to the ground....and magically now everything works.
Exactly what I suspected for the reason it isn't working. But it still isn't right. Ground wire should not be carrying any current. Wire running between the sub panel and outlet is wrong. It needs insulated wire for neutral. Not bare copper.

Which confuses the hell out of me, but he said the 3 prong is getting its neutral and ground, from the ground bar, because those are both bonded in the main panel. And he appears to be right. Is this okay?
It is not ok because your connection is made on the sub panel and ground conduct between the sub panel and the main panel should not be carrying any current under normal condition.


The other bad news is there is no way I can add another 240v cb to that sub panel, as I've only got 90 amps coming to that pool house
You can add another breaker. It is just that tenant may trip the main breaker if they run every single heating elements (both oven and cook tops) at the same time and run cloth dryer and may be a space heater or hair dryer or A/C.

Propane is not a bad idea so long as the price to install is reasonable and use large enough tank. Don't get a barbecue grill tanks. Too small for real cooking.
 
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Old 01-30-18, 06:44 PM
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Guess I'm just confused. Why is every electrician I get to come out here full of crap? This is getting irritating.

I guess I got lucky, because the dryer was not grounded to the sub panel at all, it had no ground, but it didn't shock me, it just didn't work...
 
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Old 01-30-18, 07:13 PM
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I guess I got lucky, because the dryer was not grounded to the sub panel at all, it had no ground, but it didn't shock me, it just didn't work...
Well, now it is grounded with incorrect repair by the electrician.
You could have gotten electrocuted. Assuming the dryer cord is wired correctly, the moment you press start button or open the door, chassis will become energized through 120V circuit inside dryer.
That is because ground wire or a bonding strap is connected to the neutral wire of the cord, but it is left open due to bad wiring.
This is also way 3 wire connection is no longer allowed.


Since most part of the dryer has a thick coat of paint, you will have to be touching just the right spot (edges, back of the dryer or scratched area) and your body is grounded some how.
In dry condition, a pair of shoes may be enough to insulate you from the ground and may not shock you even if you were touching a live wire.
 
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Old 01-31-18, 09:43 AM
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Three wire dryers and circuits are allowed to continue in use. If the circuit is modified or a new circuit run it would need to be 4 wire.
 
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Old 01-31-18, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by pcboss View Post
Three wire dryers and circuits are allowed to continue in use. If the circuit is modified or a new circuit run it would need to be 4 wire.
Yeah, but from what I've been told, not on sub panels.
 
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Old 01-31-18, 12:45 PM
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True, it probably should never have been allowed to run three wire dryer circuits from an isolated neutral subpanel. That said, they were installed like that all over the country, and if it was approved by the local inspector it will be grandfathered until the circuit is modified. In your case the best solution would be to replace the circuit with a 4 wire cable. If you can't do that, the next best thing is probably to connect the bare ground wire from the dryer circuit to the neutral bus of the subpanel. Inside the dryer, make sure the ground-neutral bond strap has been connected between the cord neutral terminal and the metal frame.
 
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Old 01-31-18, 01:46 PM
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Well, one more electrician came out, was the same one who was supposed to inspect it in the first place. Again I got the argument that the ground is perfectly fine being used as a neutral. He claims that because it's connected to the ground, if something were to happen, no one would get hurt and the circuit breaker would just trip. After some back and forth, I asked him, okay, then are you willing to put it on paper that this wiring is currently safe. He wouldn't do that, isn't that shocking (pun intended), right?

So, he's gonna speak with the realtor that sold the place, and possibly get them to pay for the fix...like it should have been done from the beginning.
 
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