Kitchen island wiring by gunflint65


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Old 01-16-18, 05:53 PM
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Kitchen island wiring by gunflint65

I have an island in my kitchen and plan to install a light above it. There is one regular 110 receptacle on each end of the island and I was planning to install a light switch about 6 inches away from the receptacle. I was going to run a 12-2 wire from the receptacle to the switch and 12-2 wire from the switch to the light above the island. My problem is the receptacle is wired with 14-3 wire as if it was a 220- circuit. The red and black wires are connected to the gold screws and the white is connected to the silver screw with the copper to ground. The house was built 24 years ago and the island has been wired like this since it was built. I think it must be a 110 circuit, but why use 14-3 wire? I have used the receptacle for my toaster for a long time and the toaster is quite happy. Any suggestions as to why the electrician would have done this? Thank you.
 
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Old 01-16-18, 09:06 PM
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Welcome to the forums.

Firstly.... our power is 120/240v.
That sounds like a multiwire branch circuit. That means that duplex receptacle is split and each receptacle is on it's own 15A circuit. Handle it carefully as there is 240v on that receptacle. You can confirm this by looking at the bridge across the gold screws. If it's missing.... that is two circuits and there should be two breakers..... one directly above the other..... controlling it.

If that 14-3 is connected there.... what is on the other end of the island ?

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Old 01-17-18, 07:56 AM
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Thank you for your prompt reply. After I posted my question last evening, a thought occurred to me to check if the bridge was broken across the gold screws and yes it is. So, I retrieved my Gardner-Bender GMT-319 volt meter from a friend and checked. I checked voltage using hot and neutral which shows 125 volts. Then I checked between hot and ground with the same result, 125 volts.

The other end of the island is wired the same, red, white and black. The receptacle reads 125 volts. I will wait for your reply, but I assume it is OK to run power from the receptacle over to the new light switch.

Thank you so much. I appreciate your advice. This is an excellent forum.
 

Last edited by gunflint65; 01-17-18 at 07:58 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 01-17-18, 08:28 AM
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I checked voltage using hot and neutral which shows 125 volts. Then I checked between hot and ground with the same result, 125 volts.
Like Pete said this is a MWBC so be careful. If you measure between red and black it should read 240V.

You can tap off the receptacle for a switched light.
Remove the neutral from the receptacle and connect that to the light neutral and a pigtail to reconnect to the receptacle. (do not use the receptacle screws to extend the neutral, this could cause 240V downstream if the device fails)
I would use the red wire to feed the switch, again using a pigtail to reconnect to the receptacle.
 
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Old 01-17-18, 01:34 PM
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That sounds like a MWBC wired incorrectly. When a neutral is shared between two circuits.... there will be 240v between the hot conductors.

You need to verify if there are two circuits feeding those receptacles. If there are.... they need to be one above the other in the panel.

Just one cable.... red, white and black at each end ?
That may mean it's not a MWBC.

I'd check and see if two breakers control those receptacles first.
 
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Old 01-17-18, 02:34 PM
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Kitchen small appliance branch circuits cannot power lighting. You will need to find another source of power.
 
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Old 01-17-18, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by PJmax
That sounds like a MWBC wired incorrectly. When a neutral is shared between two circuits.... there will be 240v between the hot conductors.

You need to verify if there are two circuits feeding those receptacles. If there are.... they need to be one above the other in the panel.

Just one cable.... red, white and black at each end ?
That may mean it's not a MWBC.

I'd check and see if two breakers control those receptacles first.
There are two breakers, one above the other. When I measure between the red and black on the receptacle it reads 240 volts. The receptacles on each side of the island are on different breakers, one above the other in the panel
 
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Old 01-17-18, 03:48 PM
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WOW.... four dedicated circuits to just the island. Pretty much unheard of.
 
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Old 01-17-18, 06:14 PM
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Could you give me a more detailed description of the wiring for my project? Thank you
 
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Old 01-17-18, 08:21 PM
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Are you in Canada? Recently I found out that in Canada, you can run 14/3 as MWBC and have top and bottom of separate circuits like you have right now.

To get your light circuit working you can tap hot wire from either red or black wire to make it work.
However, in the US you cannot use kitchen outlet circuits for the lighting. I don't know if that is same for Canada.
 
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Old 01-18-18, 04:56 AM
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I live in northern Minnesota. If I understand this correctly,I will remove the white neutral wire from the receptacle, make two pigtails, one to be attached to the neutral post on the receptacle and the other attached to one of the screws on the switch. Do the same with the red hot wire for the other post on the switch. Am I correct?
 
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Old 01-18-18, 10:47 AM
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Yes you are correct. Hot can be tapped form either black or red wire. Doens't matter.
 
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Old 01-18-18, 10:55 AM
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No, not correct. Never break or switch the neutral wire. Only the hot wire is switched, that's why there are two brass colored terminals on a switch.
Before explaining how to tap off of the receptacle, pcboss stated lighting cannot be drawn from kitchen receptacles.
Try to find a lighting circuit in the attic or elsewhere you can tap off of.

The neutral goes directly to the light neutral. The source hot goes directly to the light but is interrupted by the switch.
 
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Old 01-18-18, 11:02 AM
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No, not correct. Never break or switch the neutral wire. Only the hot wire is switched
I miss read that part.

Do not connect neutral (white) to the switch. Just pull it to the switch junction box and connect to white wire going to the light.
Connect switch between black wire form the outlet and black wire going to the light.


As I and other have mentioned already, you are not allowed to tap lighting to kitchen outlet circuits by the code, unless your area allows it for some reason.
It is not really a safety issue, but that is the code. Try looking for another source if possible.
 
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Old 01-18-18, 01:42 PM
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The island is not actually in the kitchen. I have an open plan living area and the island sits apart from the kitchen. The power source for the island is not the kitchen.
 
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Old 01-18-18, 02:41 PM
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This is how I wired the system. The (red) hot wire from the power source is connected to a hot (brass) post on the switch and the receptacle using a pigtail. The neutral (white) from the power source is connected to the neutral from the light using a pigtail to connect to the neutral post (silver) on the receptacle. The black (hot) wire from the power source is connected to the other hot (brass) post on the receptacle. Then I grounded the system. An electrician friend is stopping by tomorrow to check my work.
 
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Old 01-19-18, 07:15 PM
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It is not necessarily a multiwire branch circuit. Both the red and the black could be supplied by the same circuit. One would be switched and one would be energized all the time. If you have zero volts (or very close to zero) between the red and black wires, they are the same circuit.
 
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Old 01-19-18, 07:25 PM
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There are two breakers, one above the other. When I measure between the red and black on the receptacle it reads 240 volts. The receptacles on each side of the island are on different breakers, one above the other in the panel
Per the OP. Yes..... it is a MWBC.
 
 

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