Need some help finding Circuit Breakers

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Old 01-21-18, 12:44 PM
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Need some help finding Circuit Breakers

So, a fuse went out in the box a couple of years back. We tried to find a replacement for the breaker, but got told that they didn't make the kind we needed anymore. Now the water heater has gone out as well, which we just replaced it yesterday just to find out that the new one isn't working either, so my only guess is the breaker that leads to the water heater has gone out as well. I've tried looking online for at least two hours now for the breakers we need, but I have yet to have any luck with finding them and it is to expensive for us right now to get a new box entirely. So any help in finding replacements would be great, or maybe a way to work around the problem and just get things working again.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/r9usutnuda...0pics.zip?dl=0
 
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Old 01-21-18, 12:55 PM
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Welcome to the forums!

I couldn't access your link - https://www.doityourself.com/forum/e...-pictures.html
It would help to know which brand of breaker box you have.
 
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Old 01-21-18, 01:09 PM
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Looks like your panel uses regular Type CH breakers according to the label and looking at existing breakers.
Never seen that style of bus bar though.

Type CH breakers are readily available in hardware stores and new panels are still manufactured.

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Electric...tialmax&NCNI-5

I see that lugs of the bus bar was used to feed another panel marked dryer. I don't think such a wiring is allowed with small wire like that.

Connect is using a proper 2 pole breaker. I see that you have enough space.
Move 2 breakers at right bottom to empty spaces on the right and left bottom of the existing breakers on top.

I also see some neutral wires are sharing the hole with ground. This is also not allowed. Put only 1 neutral wire per hole. Grounds may share the hole with other ground wires as long as not exceeding what is allowed by the bus bar.
 
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Old 01-21-18, 01:13 PM
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Hopefully this will work out better, but it seems that all the pics got flipped onto there side for some reason...
Spoiler
 
 
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Old 01-21-18, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by lambition View Post
Looks like your panel uses regular Type CH breakers according to the label and looking at existing breakers.
Never seen that style of bus bar though.

Type CH breakers are readily available in hardware stores.

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Electric...tialmax&NCNI-5

I see that lugs of the bus bar was used to feed another panel marked dryer. I don't think such a wiring is allowed with small wire like that.

Connect is using a proper 2 pole breaker. I see that you have enough space.
Move 2 breakers at right bottom to empty spaces on the right and left bottom of the existing breakers on top.

I also see some neutral wires are sharing the hole with ground. This is also not allowed. Put only 1 neutral wire per hole. Grounds may share the hole with other ground wires as long as not exceeding what is allowed by the bus bar.
The main breaker is still fully attached and working, thanks to that bar running through them all. I can't fit any of the more common breakers into is as they have to be modified to fit in. I could try and remove the bar or cut part of it off to make the ones that you linked me fit, but I'm worried that that might just make the problem worse...
 
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Old 01-21-18, 01:18 PM
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That is the old style bus bar but modern Cutler-Hammer CH breakers should fit. Which breaker is the problem?

I see now - these are the old style CH breakers with the notch on the side. Try CH Old-Style Notched [CH230NOTCHUT] : Breaker King and Electrical Supply
 
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Last edited by Astuff; 01-21-18 at 01:24 PM. Reason: noticed it was notched breaker
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Old 01-21-18, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Astuff View Post
That is the old style bus bar but modern Cutler-Hammer CH breakers should fit. Which breaker is the problem?
Alright, seems that I have found out enough around to actually get somewhere now. I was just looking up part numbers on the breakers themselves... Which was leading me no where, but it looks like a CH120-FULL-NOTCH should be able to fit in there, now I just need to find two doubles and a single one like that and make sure the voltage they can handle is the same as what I already got in there.
 
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Old 01-21-18, 01:41 PM
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I did some research and found that there is a bar that can be removed from the load center. I think they are referring to the metal bar in the middle of your load center.
Check if that is something that can be removed without compromising safety. As long as it is not something that holds bus bar together, it should be safe.

After removing that bar new type CH breakers should fit.

If you want to use old style, I think you will have to get used/refurbished breakers.
I found some on ebay by searching for "type ch full notch"

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cutler-Hamm...kAAOSwZqZZ-9mn
Something like this.
 
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Old 01-21-18, 01:48 PM
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I would like to avoid using used ones, refurbished or not they don't tend to last to long... Especially with this houses wiring job, this place is over a 100 years old and rooms kept getting added to it... So one breaker was controlling 3 rooms outlets, and 5 rooms lights... I'll swing by some stores sometime in the next few days and see if they got parts that I could use.
 
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Old 01-21-18, 01:49 PM
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Old thread on removing the bar: https://www.doityourself.com/forum/e...-breakers.html - may not be legal but seemed to work. Otherwise the notched breakers are available refurbished in most sizes. I saw that there is also a partial notch/slotted version.
 
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Old 01-21-18, 02:00 PM
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I would like to avoid using used ones, refurbished or not they don't tend to last to long.
Breakers usually don't go bad with age unless they had water damage or overloaded.
Your only option will be used or old new stock. And old new stock is hard to come by.

Replacing entire load center might be a better option if exiting breakers are keep going bad.
 
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Old 01-22-18, 01:36 PM
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I'd like to know the testing procedure that determined all these breakers need to be replaced, especially after reading that a water heater was replaced and the new one isn't working, too! Someone replaced a water heater without verifying that the old one was actually the problem?
 
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Old 01-28-18, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
I'd like to know the testing procedure that determined all these breakers need to be replaced, especially after reading that a water heater was replaced and the new one isn't working, too! Someone replaced a water heater without verifying that the old one was actually the problem?
Parts of the old water heater had stopped working years ago, and it was full of sediment, so I just picked up a cheap one to replace it with. I checked the breakers by using a voltameter. Some of them were giving off electricity and others were not. One of them was pretty obvious though, as one of the breakers was just hanging out of the box by a wire, and it didn't even fit into the box...
 
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Old 01-29-18, 10:20 AM
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Need some help finding Circuit Breakers



Just curious, how old is that old Cutler-Hammer panel? Are there any dates on it on perhaps an inspection sticker?
 
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