Permits & Inspection
#1
05-10-01, 11:35 AM
Greetings - this is my first post.
My question pertains to what kind of work is subject to electrical permits / inspection, and what I should do for some work that I've already done.
Over the last year or so I've been doing some remodeling in my 1950s home, which has included adding some electrical work. Mainly, this included adding new receps and adding some interior lighting. I also replaced some old ungrounded knob & tube wiring with grounded romex along the way.
I've read all of the 'how-to' books and received help from someone who is knowledgable (but not licensed) in electrical work, and believe everything has been done correctly.
This is my first house, and since I've been doing all of this remodeling in small steps and have had some help, it never even occurred to me to check on getting a permit or inspection for this.
Unfortunately, I've already patched and painted over all of the access holes I've had to cut into the drywall to feed new wire through.
I would appreciate any recommendations or thoughts on whether I should come clean with our local inspection office and have all the work I've done get checked out. I know that local regulations & codes vary, but what am I most likely to encounter and what would you suggest?
Thanks in advance.
My question pertains to what kind of work is subject to electrical permits / inspection, and what I should do for some work that I've already done.
Over the last year or so I've been doing some remodeling in my 1950s home, which has included adding some electrical work. Mainly, this included adding new receps and adding some interior lighting. I also replaced some old ungrounded knob & tube wiring with grounded romex along the way.
I've read all of the 'how-to' books and received help from someone who is knowledgable (but not licensed) in electrical work, and believe everything has been done correctly.
This is my first house, and since I've been doing all of this remodeling in small steps and have had some help, it never even occurred to me to check on getting a permit or inspection for this.
Unfortunately, I've already patched and painted over all of the access holes I've had to cut into the drywall to feed new wire through.
I would appreciate any recommendations or thoughts on whether I should come clean with our local inspection office and have all the work I've done get checked out. I know that local regulations & codes vary, but what am I most likely to encounter and what would you suggest?
Thanks in advance.
#2
05-10-01, 03:56 PM
Go to the kitchen, cook some long strand noodles. Take one of those cooked noodles and beat yourself terribly. Now that you have been sufficiently punished. Do the right thing, because of many very important reasons.
As I understand it you are remodling an existing home. Call you Code enforcment office, ask if a home owner can rewire his own home without an electrical license. If he says no, then hire a licensed electrician that will accept the wiring you have already done, let him lead you through correcting your permit problems. If Code enforcment says you can wire you own home without an electrical license, then talk to him and tell him that you PLAN to remodle your home including upgrading the wiring. Ask any questions you think of to get a feel of what he needs. Sometimes Code enforcment will provide pass outs that will help you update your knowledge as to what is expected of you. Then go to the Code enforcement office and purchase a permit for a partial rewire project. This will give you allowances to wire what you feel you need to and use what you feel you can't afford to change right now. Then do some new wiring, upgrade service or whatever you want to do. Don't have to do all at once but can. Once you have done some more wiring that he can inspect then schedule the inspector to look at what you have done explaining that you want to ensure compliance with his office before you proceed further. He will come out for a partial rough in inspection. Hopefully he will not react to some wiring that has been covered. Now you are up to date with Code enforcement, and have a feel as to what he wants done to ensure safety. Then proceed with your wiring upgrade in good graces.
If you unknowingly violate the Code in your wiring upgrade and you do not have proof of inspections required in your area, then most likely you house insurance company would not pay off if damage due to storm or fire happens becuase you have no proof of inspections as required. Big loss if you get caught in this scenerio.
Advise you get the permits and inspections as required to protect your investments.
Doing as descibed above may get you into good graces with Code enforcement and ensure your insurance company won't turn you back on you without those inspections.
Good Luck
Wg
As I understand it you are remodling an existing home. Call you Code enforcment office, ask if a home owner can rewire his own home without an electrical license. If he says no, then hire a licensed electrician that will accept the wiring you have already done, let him lead you through correcting your permit problems. If Code enforcment says you can wire you own home without an electrical license, then talk to him and tell him that you PLAN to remodle your home including upgrading the wiring. Ask any questions you think of to get a feel of what he needs. Sometimes Code enforcment will provide pass outs that will help you update your knowledge as to what is expected of you. Then go to the Code enforcement office and purchase a permit for a partial rewire project. This will give you allowances to wire what you feel you need to and use what you feel you can't afford to change right now. Then do some new wiring, upgrade service or whatever you want to do. Don't have to do all at once but can. Once you have done some more wiring that he can inspect then schedule the inspector to look at what you have done explaining that you want to ensure compliance with his office before you proceed further. He will come out for a partial rough in inspection. Hopefully he will not react to some wiring that has been covered. Now you are up to date with Code enforcement, and have a feel as to what he wants done to ensure safety. Then proceed with your wiring upgrade in good graces.
If you unknowingly violate the Code in your wiring upgrade and you do not have proof of inspections required in your area, then most likely you house insurance company would not pay off if damage due to storm or fire happens becuase you have no proof of inspections as required. Big loss if you get caught in this scenerio.
Advise you get the permits and inspections as required to protect your investments.
Doing as descibed above may get you into good graces with Code enforcement and ensure your insurance company won't turn you back on you without those inspections.
Good Luck
Wg
#4
05-11-01, 09:38 AM
L West,
Do they NOT require an inspection at all? That little piece of paper (Certificate of Compliance) goes a long way with insurance companies if there is a fire. Some companies can be real insensitive toward your loss if they get to save money by not paying you. Having an experienced electrical inspector look over your work and say it is done in a safe manner as to afford reasonable protection from fire or shock hazards, then the insurance folks are reasonably assured that you didn't cause the loss and they must pay you. I would not feel comfortable until a recognized authority vouches for my work. But that's my two cents...
Juice
Do they NOT require an inspection at all? That little piece of paper (Certificate of Compliance) goes a long way with insurance companies if there is a fire. Some companies can be real insensitive toward your loss if they get to save money by not paying you. Having an experienced electrical inspector look over your work and say it is done in a safe manner as to afford reasonable protection from fire or shock hazards, then the insurance folks are reasonably assured that you didn't cause the loss and they must pay you. I would not feel comfortable until a recognized authority vouches for my work. But that's my two cents...
Juice
#7
05-11-01, 06:20 PM
Boy it's really something to come to this forum and read of single-dwelling home owners take about permits! Just the fact that there are those that inquire here is notable to me. Over and above the red tape, most care about safety here, and i like that because this is my trade, and i hate when it gets a bad rap.
My situation is 180 deg the other way, we have very few inspectors ( i mean real NEC ones), so there is much bad work around here done by individuals not associated in any way with the electrical trade. This is done for homeowners as well as in industrial and commercial settings !
Much of my biz comes from fixing these mistakes, but this gets to be a real bummer explaining why the last guy's work fried. From my point of view, many of these scenario's would have been better done in the first place by an educated DYI'er who took the time in BB's like this, instead of paying out to a looney tune with a time-life book and a stack of cheap biz cards with dale-carnige credentials.
My situation is 180 deg the other way, we have very few inspectors ( i mean real NEC ones), so there is much bad work around here done by individuals not associated in any way with the electrical trade. This is done for homeowners as well as in industrial and commercial settings !
Much of my biz comes from fixing these mistakes, but this gets to be a real bummer explaining why the last guy's work fried. From my point of view, many of these scenario's would have been better done in the first place by an educated DYI'er who took the time in BB's like this, instead of paying out to a looney tune with a time-life book and a stack of cheap biz cards with dale-carnige credentials.
#8
05-11-01, 06:43 PM
Wirenuts,
I appreciate your comments, and your frustrations. In so many walks of life, not just electrical, people care mostly about calling something "done" to the degree that it works. I've seen people caulk a p-trap, and it didn't leak. Seen 'em strip romex sheath farther than the cable-to-box clamp but clamp it anyway 'cause they already cut the wire, and it didn't short out. (Until I wiggled it one day!) Seen 'em wrap solid THHN around partially stripped knob & tube, tape heavily, and then run those THHNs across the unfinished attic laying on top of insulation without raceway, and lo and behold - IT WORKED!! I guess therefore it means is won't burn up.
I'm afraid that many people do not realize having an installation "blessed" by someone who is experienced and knowledgeable in safe, fire & shock resistant electrical work is protecting them and their family from harm, but instead believe that it's just another case of "The Man" trying to extract fees from us and push us around with beaurocratic red tape and power trips.
The folks in this forum seem to care very much about the folks that write in looking for the right way to do things. And I'm sure some don't want to hear "get a permit" or "get an inspection". But we who say this kind of thing and advise this way because we don't want someone who's experience we can't ascertain to become a statistic.
I like to enable folks and empower them. I like to teach what I can. But I don't want to harm anyone. And to anyone I may advise, please be careful and think of safety always over & above money to be saved.
Out comes the hook to drag me off the soap box.
Juice
I appreciate your comments, and your frustrations. In so many walks of life, not just electrical, people care mostly about calling something "done" to the degree that it works. I've seen people caulk a p-trap, and it didn't leak. Seen 'em strip romex sheath farther than the cable-to-box clamp but clamp it anyway 'cause they already cut the wire, and it didn't short out. (Until I wiggled it one day!) Seen 'em wrap solid THHN around partially stripped knob & tube, tape heavily, and then run those THHNs across the unfinished attic laying on top of insulation without raceway, and lo and behold - IT WORKED!! I guess therefore it means is won't burn up.
I'm afraid that many people do not realize having an installation "blessed" by someone who is experienced and knowledgeable in safe, fire & shock resistant electrical work is protecting them and their family from harm, but instead believe that it's just another case of "The Man" trying to extract fees from us and push us around with beaurocratic red tape and power trips.
The folks in this forum seem to care very much about the folks that write in looking for the right way to do things. And I'm sure some don't want to hear "get a permit" or "get an inspection". But we who say this kind of thing and advise this way because we don't want someone who's experience we can't ascertain to become a statistic.
I like to enable folks and empower them. I like to teach what I can. But I don't want to harm anyone. And to anyone I may advise, please be careful and think of safety always over & above money to be saved.
Out comes the hook to drag me off the soap box.
Juice
#9
05-14-01, 07:45 AM
Woooo hooooo! I had my first electrical (and framing) rough in inspection this morning and was approved! This includes outlet and lighting circuits I installed PLUS a 100 amp sub panel.
Many thannks to you guys for all the advice and tips! Another thing I found helpful was looking at work that contactors are doing on new construction in my neighborhood.
Many thannks to you guys for all the advice and tips! Another thing I found helpful was looking at work that contactors are doing on new construction in my neighborhood.
