Expresso machine on the 20AMP GFI

Reply

  #1  
Old 04-06-18, 07:34 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 12
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Expresso machine on the 20AMP GFI

I checked my main electric breaker box and 2 of the GFI power supply lines are marked on the panel as 20AMP.
The GFI outtels installed are also 20AMP rated. This is an older house but wires looks good.

I am looking at Expresson machines with specifications of:
Two heaters with 1 x 1000 Watts and 1 x 1400 Watts = total 2400.

As far as i understand the max wattage on the 20AMP outlet is 20x120 = 2400Watts where recommended load should not go over 80% which is around 1920Watts.

Does it mean if i attempt to use that coffee machine on that outlet the outlet will shutoff or could it even lead to damaging the wiring?

Would it be wiser to go with machine that only requires 1400Watts?

thx
 

Last edited by bwspot; 04-06-18 at 08:54 PM.
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 04-07-18, 04:58 AM
Geochurchi's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 4,166
Received 23 Votes on 23 Posts
Good morning, chances are there are other outlets on that circuit in which case if you should be using more than 1 appliance at the same time you could have an issue using the Expresso machine, 80% is a good figure to consider,
Geo
 
  #3  
Old 04-07-18, 07:27 AM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 14,996
Received 39 Votes on 34 Posts
Can you install a new circuit for this machine ?
 
  #4  
Old 04-07-18, 07:47 AM
Tolyn Ironhand's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 13,056
Received 73 Votes on 65 Posts
recommended load should not go over 80%
80% rule applies to continuous loads. Unless this is a coffee shop where the coffee maker will be on all the time it will not be a continuous load. That said, I would go with the 1400w machine which is about the same as a standard coffee pot.
 
  #5  
Old 04-07-18, 07:48 AM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 3,752
Received 42 Votes on 40 Posts
Check the instructions or read reviews about how many cups of coffee the machine can produce all at once to help decide whether you want the bigger 2400 watt machine.

You do not have to install new circuits at this time unless you expect to have to get out extension cords so other appliances can be plugged into different circuits when you are using the expresso machine.

The 2400 watt expresso machine will have a different plug compared with light fixtures and smaller appliances. The netural prong for the 120 volt 20 amp plug is angled differently, pointing at the hot prong instead of being parallel. You may need to replace a receptacle unit if you don't already have a 20 amp receptacle in place. A 15/20 amp 120 volt receptacle has a "T" shaped neutral prong hole. Fifteen amp receptacles can coexist on a 20 amp circuit so long as there are at least two receptacles of any kind (one duplex or two round singles) altogether..
 
  #6  
Old 04-07-18, 10:57 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 12
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
AllanJ,
See attached of what kind of 20 amp receptacle i have in place. I personally purchased it and installed it to replace the old outlet.
The breaker is marked as 20amps and the outlet was 20amp rated. I dont remember 100% but it is possible that that outlet on the photo is sharing the neutral with either the washing machine or other GFI. I would have to open it to be 100% sure.
What I would like to know if 2400 watts would not be too much for it and if it might even lead to burning the wire and possible fire if the expresso would be on for longer times. (lets say 3-4 hours)
I am not an electrician so i want to be 100% sure that i can use an expresso machine that is rated 2400Watts. The machine is using 2 boilers one for steam one for water. (1000watts and 1400watts)
Name:  IMG_1216.jpg
Views: 92
Size:  89.3 KB

Name:  IMG_1215.jpg
Views: 97
Size:  93.3 KB
 
  #7  
Old 04-08-18, 06:49 AM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 3,752
Received 42 Votes on 40 Posts
Yes, the receptacle shown is for 15 or 20 amp lights, appliances, and other devices.

If that is the receptacle the expresso machine requires then it is safe to plug it in and not worry about it. (You will still have to worry about not using other things on the same circuit for fear of tripping the breaker.)

he heating elements in the expresso machine cycle on and off and will probably not be on long enough to require a continuous rating in terms of power usage. If the machine were rated as 20 amps continuous it should have a 25 amp (or 30 amp) plug requiring a similarly larger amperage circuit, receptacle and breaker to take into account the 80% rule for continuous loads.

A properly wired multiwire branch circuit (shared neutral situation) does not matter here compared with an ordinary 120 volt only circuit. A (20 amp) MWBC with the large expresso machine plugged in on one side has the full 20 amps still available on the other side.
 
  #8  
Old 04-08-18, 09:46 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 12
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thank you for explaining. I also noticed that the old outlets that i replaced were 15AMP only although the breakers are marked 20amps.
I matched what the breaker was rated for when replacing them.
Do you think 15amp outlets were put there to avoid any overload on those by allowing 15amps only?
Also what is the difference on the breaker box itself where marked 15 or 20 amps. Does it mean that all the elements of the breaker box are same but just the breaker itself is rated 20AMPS therefore allowing more load on that specific wire connected to it or there is more to it? Is there a specific requirement for the cable size 12 or 14 when 15amp or 20amp is used?

I also did more investigation on those expreso machines and it turns out the heating elements dont work simultaneously but one at the time so it is either 1000Watts or 1400watts but not 2400watts so that makes me feel safer.

Also if the expresso machine is rated 15amps what happens when you connect it to 20amps outlet. Would that machine go over 15amps or due to its specification although the circuit allows more the 15amps the machine is limied to max 15amps?
 
  #9  
Old 04-08-18, 06:57 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 3,752
Received 42 Votes on 40 Posts
There are very few 20 amp household appliances. The 15 amp receptacles are cheaper for all purpose use in the home.

Most breaker boxes can accommodate 30, 40, and 50 amp breakers if circuits of those capacities are needed. Yes, allowing more amps on the specific wire (branch circuit) connected to that breaker. There is a total number of amps allowed for the entire breaker box e.g. 150 amps and there is supposed to be a master breaker (sometimes in a separate box) for that many amps or lesser amps even if the sum of the amperes ratings of all the branch circuit breakers in the box exceeds that total which is allowed.

If a 15 amp appliance is plugged into a 20 amp circuit the appliance will still draw just the number of amps (or watts) it wants unless there is a malfunction.

U.S. safety approved equipment e.g. Underwriters Labs approved for 15 amp receptacles is supposed to not fail explosively or spectacularly in case of any foreseeable malfunction if the circuit is 20 amps compared with on a 15 amp circuit.
 
  #10  
Old 04-08-18, 07:25 PM
Tolyn Ironhand's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 13,056
Received 73 Votes on 65 Posts
A 15 amp receptacle is just the configuration of the holes on the device. The internal components are the same as a 20 amp receptacle.
 
  #11  
Old 04-10-18, 03:52 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 12
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I though that the 20amp receptacle GFI will allow for max 20amps until it switches off. Same with 15amp receptacle GFI. (15Amp max)
Lets say the wire is 12awg and the breaker box is marked as 20AMP.
If i use 15amp gfi and connect a device that for some reason goes over 15amps then the gfi receptacle will go off first before the breaker.
Now if i have both the breaker and receptacle gfi 20amps and lets say load goes over 20amp which device goes off first?

Also if both gfi and breaker are 20amps and lets say wiring is older if the device malfunctions and draws more power is it possible that due to 20amp gfi more power was allowed to be drawn therefore it was more risky due to 20amps gfi and it would be safer to have the 15amp receptacle?
 
  #12  
Old 04-10-18, 04:42 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 3,752
Received 42 Votes on 40 Posts
A ground fault circuit interrupter does not trip due to overcurrent unless it was specifically made as an overcurrent protection breaker.

A 20 amp GFCI receptacle unit may well have the same innards as a 15 amp GFCI receptacle.

The panel breaker protects the circuit and in the case of overcurrent is ecpected to trip before a GFCI receptacle would.
 
  #13  
Old 04-10-18, 06:24 PM
Tolyn Ironhand's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 13,056
Received 73 Votes on 65 Posts
As Allan said, A GFCI's function has nothing to do current (amps), only in the detection of ground faults.
 
  #14  
Old 04-11-18, 10:17 AM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 10,274
Received 43 Votes on 35 Posts
I'd like to see the plug in the OP's Post #6. My money says the Espresso machine just has a 15 amp cord and plug.
 
  #15  
Old 04-12-18, 10:57 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 12
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
yes the machine is 15amp plug.
I verified with manufacturer and they say the boilers switch and only one works at the same time.
I was told the machine will draw max 1400watts 15,17 amps.
 
  #16  
Old 04-12-18, 12:28 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
1400 watts is 11.6 amps not 15-17 amps.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: