How to plug in a washer/dryer

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  #41  
Old 07-02-18, 11:10 AM
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Yes don't like 120 volt dryer. See picture I added to my previous post.
I'd suggest setting a box into thr laundry nooks wall rather then use a surface mount box like was previously used.

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  #42  
Old 07-02-18, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
Yes don't like 120 volt dryer. See picture I added to my previous post.
I'd suggest setting a box into thr laundry nooks wall rather then use a surface mount box like was previously used.
If the new outlet was installed with the "10-3 NM-b" cable (4-wires, right?), would this be compatible with the current 30-amp breaker? Or would that particular breaker have to change?
 
  #43  
Old 07-02-18, 12:35 PM
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No need to change the breaker unless they did more stupid and did not use a breaker rated for the box.
 
  #44  
Old 07-02-18, 12:41 PM
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Thanks. If anyone knows of any good online tutorials about hooking up wiring to an existing breaker, that would be great. I've done other stuff in the past (with your guys' guidance lol), but never worked with a breaker. If it's too much, I may just call in the professional.
 
  #45  
Old 07-02-18, 01:41 PM
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While you are at it ditch the plastic vent hose. It is not for use with dryers.
 
  #46  
Old 07-02-18, 02:03 PM
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The way they did the other work I was wondering if the vent even went outside.

Running the new receptacle is easy but because it is an apartment it is best to have it done by an electrician.
 
  #47  
Old 07-02-18, 05:26 PM
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When I first looked at the panel I thought it was surface mounted but looking at it now I think it is flush mounted so my instructions will change a bit.
 
  #48  
Old 07-03-18, 12:15 PM
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Looking at you fourth post my reaction is OMG, that was not done by an electrician might be considered a code violation by an inspector because usually you can't just run cable unprotected across a wall.
That would explain why the circuit was improperly installed using 10-2 NM cable. At least I think it was 10-2, might have been 12-2. It's been there a pretty long time.

While you are at it ditch the plastic vent hose. It is not for use with dryers.
Agree completely! They are also bad about clogging.

Yes don't like 120 volt dryer.
I don't like a 120 volt apartment sized dryer either, but they do work. I used one for a few years about 35 years ago. It worked, but was slow about drying a load.
 
  #49  
Old 07-03-18, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by CasualJoe View Post
Agree completely! They are also bad about clogging.
.
I had the same thought about the plastic vent hose. I was afraid it vented into the attic (it's the top-floor apartment). I went up into the attic and the vent hose converts to that metal accordion type alllllllllllll the way up to the roof....which is about another 10-15 foot run. Yikes. I guess that's better than plastic tubing venting into the attic.
 
  #50  
Old 07-03-18, 09:09 PM
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I went up into the attic and the vent hose converts to that metal accordion type alllllllllllll the way up to the roof....which is about another 10-15 foot run. Yikes. I guess that's better than plastic tubing venting into the attic.
Is it aluminum (not foil) flexible duct?
As long is they are installed fully extended, they will work ok. But still not recommend. It will require cleaning more often as lints will get stuck on rough surface. If they are not fully extended, the surface will be even rougher and more drag and collects more lint.

You can replace plastic ducting with foil type. Make sure it is rated for dryer. There are 2 different grades and the one rated for dryer has thicker foil and withstand high temperature.
Hard piping is the best, but can be hard to work with. When using any flexible duct, make sure they are fully extended.
 
  #51  
Old 07-03-18, 10:01 PM
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Access to the attic makes running a new cable for the dryer easier.
 
  #52  
Old 07-03-18, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
Access to the attic makes running a new cable for the dryer easier.
Bingo, I may just install the new outlet, then route the wire up inside the wall to the attic, then back down inside the wall and wind up behind the breaker. Sound like a viable plan?

I’m still not sure I’m going to do it or if we’re going to hire an electrician, but we’re going to chat with the good ‘ol landlord first. Regardless, when you’re working on the breaker, do you cut power to the whole panel (turn off the main) before working on one breaker?
 

Last edited by John Palatzo; 07-03-18 at 10:45 PM.
  #53  
Old 07-03-18, 10:50 PM
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It is certainly safer if the power is off in the panel before working in it. Even then there still may be parts that are still energized .
 
  #54  
Old 07-04-18, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by John Palatzo
when you’re working on the breaker, do you cut power to the whole panel (turn off the main) before working on one breaker?
Have you ever had to really stretch to reach an outlet; and you can't see anything,
so you feel with your fingertip to figure out where the prongs go?
And you get shocked as you plug it in because you were touching one of the prongs?
Well, in my experience, a shock from current on the hot prong, feels just like a shock from current on the return prong, which feels just like a shock from current on the ground prong.

So, you'll want to turn off the breaker in the panel.
Because you have (at least) one kludge-fix running current onto a ground wire (copper) and a neutral wire (white) you want to assume that anything may give you a shock.
 

Last edited by Hal_S; 07-04-18 at 05:41 AM.
  #55  
Old 07-04-18, 12:56 PM
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Regardless, when you’re working on the breaker, do you cut power to the whole panel (turn off the main) before working on one breaker?
Technically, yes.
If you have access to the main breaker, cut the power. If not, you can still work on the live panel.
Most electrician will work on live panel. Not so dangerous if you know what you are doing, but still bit risky. Never touch live area and grounded area (chassis and neutral bus) together with a screw driver. Turn off the breaker that you are attaching wires to. Insulated screw drivers helps.
 
  #56  
Old 07-04-18, 01:44 PM
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Old rule i learned is keep one hand in your back pocket.
 
  #57  
Old 07-04-18, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by lambition
Insulated screw drivers helps.
Quick follow up about the screwdriver -

I have a couple of wooden handled screwdrivers for just such a situation.

They either have a mulit-layer wrapping of electric tape so that ONLY the tip of the blade is visible,
or
they are sleved with rubber fuel line that extends just past the screwdriver bit-
The rubber covering slides OVER the screw head, the metal shaft can't touch anthing and spark, AND it helps keep a slotted screwdriver from kicking out when you're turning it at an odd angle,

And, you can also wear a pair of gloves, simple cloth gardening gloves help, or leather work gloves, or just go grab a pair of rubber dishwasher's gloves from a dollar store.
 
  #58  
Old 07-04-18, 02:19 PM
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Wow thanks guys. Great tips. Part of my concern too was having something like the refrigerator off for too long while the breaker is off. I wonder if it’s worth dragging an extension cord to the neighbor’s apartment to keep the fridge running...or if I can work fast enough that it won’t affect the fridge.
 
  #59  
Old 07-04-18, 03:48 PM
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90% of the work can be done before you even enter the panel.

Not recommending you run the line but if it was me I'd remove the panel front carefully. Best to turn off the main breaker.cover

Look to see where cables exit the top of the panel and note a spot over a knock-out where I could cut a space for a low voltage old work ring. (Ring for access only and to hold a cover plate when finished.)

Now temporarily replace the panel cover and turn back on. (Only five minutes with out power)

Cut and install the old work low voltage ring. From the attic drill a hole through the stud plate to feed a cable to the low voltage ring.

In the laundry nook cut a hole for an old work box. Drill a hole in the stut plate above the receptacle hole.

From the attic feed a 10-3 cable into the old work box hole and install the old work box and receptacle.

Run the cable across the attic and feed into the low voltage ring'

Open the panel again, remove k-o place a cable connector on the cable and feed it into the box being careful of the still hot lugs on the main breaker if its at the top.

Now just a mater of removing the old cable and connecting the new. (Should take less than thirty minutes tops.)

Pull the old cable into the attic.

Install a blank cover plate on the low voltage ring.

Note you could just cut a hole above the panel but I'm lousy at Sheetrock repair.
 
  #60  
Old 07-04-18, 06:32 PM
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An access panel may be better instead of low voltage ring. It will give you larger opening and in my opinion if you will going to have a blank cover, might as well as just have an access panel.
You can paint it to match to existing wall if desired.

I prefer patching the sheetrock over blank cover or access panel though.

Also, instead of opening new knock out, try undoing old dryer cable and pull that cable and use that same hole for the new cable. It will be stapled to the stud (if it was done right), but if you cut the wall close enough you will have access to the cable before the first staple and you can just cut it there.
If that fails, you can always open new knock out.
 
  #61  
Old 07-04-18, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post

Look to see where cables exit the top of the panel and note a spot over a knock-out where I could cut a space for a low voltage old work ring. (Ring for access only and to hold a cover plate when finished.)'

Open the panel again, remove k-o place a cable connector on the cable and feed it into the box being....
Just need some clarification on these two parts you mentioned.

Is this the low voltage work ring you mentioned?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/100160916

Is this the cable connector you mentioned?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/100133208


Originally Posted by lambition View Post
An access panel may be better instead of low voltage ring. It will give you larger opening and in my opinion if you will going to have a blank cover, might as well as just have an access panel.
Can you link me to an access panel?

I guess I’m curious why you guys even mentioned the low voltage ring or the access panel. Can’t I just come down from the attic with the cable and go right into the breaker panel? Maybe I’m just missing something.
 
  #62  
Old 07-04-18, 09:07 PM
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Can you link me to an access panel?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/8-in-x-8...APS8/204509823

They are usually used for accessing shutoff valves or clean out for plumbing. You can cut a 8 x 8 hole and cover the hole with this panel instead of repairing drywall.

I guess I’m curious why you guys even mentioned the low voltage ring or the access panel. Can’t I just come down from the attic with the cable and go right into the breaker panel? Maybe I’m just missing something.
It is pretty much impossible to feed cable into the knockout of the panel from the attic. You will need a hole above the panel to feed cable into the knockout hole.

Is this the low voltage work ring you mentioned?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/100160916

Is this the cable connector you mentioned?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/100133208
Those are the correct parts. in addition to the low voltage ring, you will also need a blank cover to cover the hole. 1 gang doens't give you much room to work with. 2 gang will be better. 8x8 access panel gives you even more room.
Or even better, just repair the drywall.

Be very careful when cutting the drywall near the breaker panel. There will be a bunch of cables behind. Use a cheap drywall saw with dull teeth and cut at shallow depth.

As for the NM connector (aka Romex connector), you can also reuse the one that was connected to the old cable if you choose to remove it, which I recommend.
 
  #63  
Old 07-22-18, 07:53 PM
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Hi folks,

Back again with an update. I'd appreciate your input, once again. We actually found a 240v combo unit (washer and dryer), and it's only a year old. I was assuming it was going to have the 4-wire plug, but in fact it has the 3-wire plug that would fit our existing 3-hole receptacle (see the original post) in the apartment. I guess I was assuming that since you guys were mentioning 4-prong plugs were the "new way", that any "current" washer/dryer combo would have this type of plug. But in earlier posts, you still didn't like the existing 3-hole receptacle and recommended re-wiring it. I guess what I'm confused about is why would new washer/dryers have the old style plug? Again, not disagreeing, just trying to understand it better. Or would you still recommend upgrading the receptacle to a 4-hole receptacle, and upgrading the unit's wiring to a 4-wire plug. Again, seems odd to do that to a "newer" unit.

For anyone SUPER interested, it's GE model gud27esmmww:

https://www.geappliances.ca/en/produ...ts/GUD27ESMMWW

Thanks!
 
  #64  
Old 07-22-18, 08:33 PM
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The machines.can be converted to.work.on either the older 3 wire or the newer 4 wire setups. Older compliant wiring is allowed to remain in use.
 

Last edited by PJmax; 07-22-18 at 08:37 PM. Reason: typo
  #65  
Old 07-22-18, 08:34 PM
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To roughly quote a home inspector-

"Well, it is wired wrong, but the good news is that it shouldn't electrocute you; it might spark and trip a breaker. But I'd still replace it".
 
  #66  
Old 07-22-18, 08:43 PM
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240V dryers do not come with cord prewired. It is supposed to be wired at the time of installation with matching cord for existing receptacle.

If the previous owner had 3 prong receptacle, then the cord will be 3 prong.

You don't have to rewire to 4 prong to use the dryer. However, your existing wiring is wrong because bare ground conductor is being used as neutral/ground. Bare conductor being used as neutral is only allowed with a service entrance cable.

Having said that, the actual risk is very minimal in my opinion.
The risk with 3 prong is that the chassis if the dryer is grounded using neutral conductor. When neutral wire gets disconnected for any reason, the chassis becomes hot and can electrocute person touching it. This case will not occur under normal use.
 
  #67  
Old 07-22-18, 08:49 PM
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"Well, it is wired wrong, but the good news is that it shouldn't electrocute you
That is incorrect. It can electrocute you. That was the reason behind going to 4 wire appliances/wiring.

To explain...... years ago when appliances were designed as 240v appliances..... the third wire wire was strictly a ground wire. Now many appliances are 120/240v which means in a three wire system.... the ground wire is carrying neutral and ground. That is fine as long as that wire stays connected between the panel and the appliance. But if it opens..... there is now 120v on the appliance case. Touch that case and a grounded water faucet or sink and it's all over.

With a four wire supply...... the neutral is carried on its own wire. The neutral and ground are completely separate.

This is the same reason that four wires are required for a sub-panel.

This case will not occur under normal use.
I service appliances. I can't tell you how many times I've found a hot appliance. Usually caused by a loose prong in the plug.
 
  #68  
Old 07-23-18, 07:29 AM
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Wow guys, thanks again for all the input.

Sounds like the best plan here is to (1) replace the receptacle with a 4-prong receptacle, (2) run new 10-3 cable from the new receptacle to panel, and (3) replace the cord on the washer/dryer with one that has a 4-prong plug.

In an earlier post (#33) it was recommended to rewire the existing receptacle. But that's not really an option, right? It's either use the existing 3-prong receptacle with some risk, or replace it with a 4-prong receptacle. But just rewiring the 3-prong receptacle doesn't seem like an option.
 
  #69  
Old 07-23-18, 07:57 AM
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it was recommended to rewire the existing receptacle. But that's not really an option, right?
No, less safe and not compliant with current code. New cable, four prong receptacle, and the dryer/washer rewired for a matching cord set is the best option.
 
  #70  
Old 07-23-18, 10:03 AM
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Thanks again. Not sure if there is much difference between the 4-prong receptacle/cord where the 4th prong is L-shaped, or the one where the 4th prong is flat.

Here is my shopping list at Home Depot. Comments welcome

1. 15 ft. 10/3 Solid Romex SIMpull CU NB-B W/G Wire - $33.71

2. 2-gang 25 cu. in. Non-metallic Old Work Switch and Outlet Box

3. 2-Gang 1 Power Outlet Wall Plate - Stainless Steel

4. 4 ft. 4-Prong 30 Amp Dryer Cord - $20.96

5. 30 Amp Industrial Flush Mount Shallow Single Outlet, Black
 
  #71  
Old 07-23-18, 11:15 AM
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Those are the correct parts.

Not sure if there is much difference between the 4-prong receptacle/cord where the 4th prong is L-shaped, or the one where the 4th prong is flat.
That is a 60 amp plug. You need the 30 amp you listed.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 07-24-18 at 07:25 PM.
  #72  
Old 07-24-18, 07:24 PM
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When you replace cord on the washer/dryer, don't forget to move neutral to ground bonding wire from ground screw to neutral screw.
Some companies use green wire and some use white, but it will be connected to green ground screw on the chassis. You have to move that under neutral screw (the middle on) to disconnect ground from neutral.


I have seen many dryers installed wrong like that because that is how it comes pre-wired from the factory.
 
 

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